Grand Prix Rejects

Yes I know, the usual gripe, former quite good track ruined.
Can Gangsta Hamilton secure his inevitable 97th title this weekend?

Wrong country, Spectoremg As the Mexican GP isn't for two weeks, I'm locking the thread.

Ok it's Monday, so this thread is unlocked again

Apologies for my previous stupidity

You are forgiven.

The big news I just read is that Wehrlein might be a top tip to return to Formula 1 with the new Campos entry!

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/146690/wehrlein-open-to-chance-with-new-campos-f1-bid

Mexico offers a race track that is handily located , with enthusiastic crowds .
But am I alone in finding the track to be a bit 'meh'? The excessively long straight followed by a first corner that acts a bit like T2 at Sochi ( inviting 'shortcuts') , and just a few too many really tight corners ( none of which are after a long straight, so little overtaking opportunity arises from them) , and the swervy bits are better for cars with less downforce, but are single file, follow-at-a-distance for long fat F1 cars stuck to the ground....

And the teams then run around on race day preserving brakes (thin air) and engines ( overheating from thin air).
Nothing Mexico can do about the latter ( I say FIA should mandate enormous capacity brakes and brake cooling and stop anyone from facing brake issues in F1 from 'wear' or overheating) .
But if T1 was a hairpin ..wouldnt it be a bit better?

I think the first five corners would be better off with a radius, like they used to have, although turns 1–3 and 4–5 felt a little similar before—4 and 5 had their "less exciting Fagnes" thing going on, but still—and now the two sections feel more different from each other. I like the new esses, even if they're pretty much only two corners now... before, half the track was just the same corner, it was Sochi before Sochi. Losing Peraltada is a shame; none of the corners that replaced it are as fun. They aren't bad, but they aren't Peraltada. But it had to be done.

Turn 1 doesn't need to be a hairpin; I don't dislike hairpins after long straights, but the calendar has enough of them.

Overall I think it's pretty good. Not in the top 20 in the world like an F1 track should be, but it certainly doesn't make me go "ugh, why are we going here".

UncreativeUsername37 wrote:
Overall I think it's pretty good. Not in the top 20 in the world like an F1 track should be, but it certainly doesn't make me go "ugh, why are we going here".

^This. It is nice to have a properly enthusiastic crowd at a GP, and with the Dutch GP next year having a wild banked turn, I can almost get over the loss of the Peradalta.

Just watched FP2 on Sky catch-up.

This looks like it is going to be a tyres race - the softs seem to be falling apart after 5 laps or so. So does one use mediums in Q3 and just take the lead when those who used softs pit? There is some clever on-the-fly strategising and slight of hand going to be happening during that session.

Ferrari seem to have a massive engine performance advantage - one can only wonder how they will mess this one up...

IceG wrote:Just watched FP2 on Sky catch-up.

This looks like it is going to be a tyres race - the softs seem to be falling apart after 5 laps or so. So does one use mediums in Q3 and just take the lead when those who used softs pit? There is some clever on-the-fly strategising and slight of hand going to be happening during that session.

Ferrari seem to have a massive engine performance advantage - one can only wonder how they will mess this one up...

Obviously I meant Q2 but I won't edit it so you all know I'm an idiot...

So Max Verstappen has gotten pole position, after Bottas crash in Q3 meant that Vettel and his team-mate could not complete their flying lap. Verstappen also didn't slow down under double-waved yellows, but Michael Masi chose not to investigate it.

Great precedent Michael. Again.

Miguel98 wrote:So Max Verstappen has gotten pole position, after Bottas crash in Q3 meant that Vettel and his team-mate could not complete their flying lap. Verstappen also didn't slow down under double-waved yellows, but Michael Masi chose not to investigate it.

Great precedent Michael. Again.

I'm already feeling somewhat vindicated in nominating race management and the stewards for RotR in my predictions

And what a surprise that Sky F1 instantly leapt to Max's defence saying that he may have gone fast enough in the rest of the sector and still slowed down even though that was clearly utter nonsense. It's also all very well saying 'yes, but it doesn't matter as he was fastest anyway' because he now has a track record that shouldn't stand.

There may be consequences - as indeed there should be

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... g/4587384/

When pushed further on if he backed off, Verstappen said: “It didn't really look like it did it? No.”

I'll take "Things you don't say to a reporter if you're being investigated for ignoring yellow flags" for 16,000.

And indeed there has, as Max Verstappen has been handed a 3 place grid drop for tomorrow, handing the entire front row to our Ferrari boys. So, how will the italian bois loose this one?

Miguel98 wrote:And indeed there has, as Max Verstappen has been handed a 3 place grid drop for tomorrow, handing the entire front row to our Ferrari boys. So, how will the italian bois loose this one?

Mercedes pull a pit-lane bluff. Of course, if it doesn't punish Valtteri, it ain't real.

But that won't stop Maranello being fooled.

IceG wrote:There may be consequences - as indeed there should be

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... g/4587384/

It is good that there have been consequences for Verstappen's behaviour, because the attitude that he showed afterwards was pretty disgusting to me - it reeked of the attitude of somebody who thought that there was no way that the stewards would have the courage to penalise him for breaking the rules.

It does feel as if, as the season has gone on, there has been a sloppiness in the way the race director has worked. They're slow to react, if they do react at all, they've weakened penalties and generally given the impression that they are reluctant to take drivers to task - particularly those young drivers with loud fan bases, like Verstappen and Leclerc.

We had the incompetence in Monaco, the inexplicably slow decision to eventually send out a safety car in Singapore when Russell was punted into the wall, the mess over Leclerc's damaged car in Japan, the pathetically weak penalty for Leclerc's unsafe release in Germany and now Verstappen in Mexico.

I would not be surprised if, at this rate, we see at least one more instance of this sort of incident in the closing races - it feels as if these sorts of events are happening with far greater frequency than under Whiting. For now, it does feel as if the FIA is sort of getting away with it because, with Whiting having passed away only recently, the measures that were put in place under his watch have held for now and have been observed for now.

However, do I trust Masi to continue with that level of rigour? If I am honest, I am concerned that he might not - and that it might only be a matter of time before something suddenly goes badly wrong.

I don't mind racing incidents being called racing incidents and I praise the stewards and race management for letting minor things stand as such (you're not going to get racing if the drivers think they'll be penalized if they don't pull it off perfectly), but when you have egregious things like putting in a new track record while a driver is in the wall on a fast corner and only just off the racing line that only get penalized because the driver was arrogant enough to brag about it on TV, that's certainly something that the FIA needs to consider getting more aggressive on.

If Verstappen had drifted slightly onto the kerb, he would have gone straight into Bottas' car (which at the time still contained Bottas) and caused an extremely dangerous collision for both drivers. If Bottas had been getting out of the car when Verstappen went past, he could have been killed. I don't think losing the time, 2 penalty points and a 3 place grid placement is enough, especially when the driver concerned shows no remorse whatsoever and doesn't appear to care that he broke the rules. That kind of reckless driving should get you disqualified from the race.

Agree with all this on Verstappen. But I don't think Hamilton should be getting away with this either. Bottas crashes and the Sky commentators say "nobody can improve their lap time now", and Hamilton immediately improved his lap-time.

I would presume that he was slow in S3 but was quicker in the previous sectors.

Was Hamilton's fastest time removed?

Rob Dylan wrote:Agree with all this on Verstappen. But I don't think Hamilton should be getting away with this either. Bottas crashes and the Sky commentators say "nobody can improve their lap time now", and Hamilton immediately improved his lap-time.

I would presume that he was slow in S3 but was quicker in the previous sectors.

Was Hamilton's fastest time removed?

Bottas had barely come to a standstill when Hamiton passed him. Vettel was 5 seconds or so behind Hamilton on the track and slowed significantly for the last corner. Verstappen was even further back behind Vettel.

Hamilton's second lap was not deleted. It's difficult to tell from the global feed but it looks like the yellow flag was not active when he passed Bottas (as he was following him so closely), which would be the only reason I can see why the time was allowed to stand.

Rob Dylan wrote:Agree with all this on Verstappen. But I don't think Hamilton should be getting away with this either. Bottas crashes and the Sky commentators say "nobody can improve their lap time now", and Hamilton immediately improved his lap-time.

I would presume that he was slow in S3 but was quicker in the previous sectors.

Was Hamilton's fastest time removed?

Weren't they just a couple of seconds off each other on track? So I doubt there were yellow flags shown for him since he was probably almost past Bottas' car by the time it had come to a complete stop - thus Hamilton not really having the time to react to the accident.

CarloSpace wrote:Weren't they just a couple of seconds off each other on track? So I doubt there were yellow flags shown for him since he was probably almost past Bottas' car by the time it had come to a complete stop - thus Hamilton not really having the time to react to the accident.

I think that's correct - I recall Hamilton clearly looking in the mirror to see what had happened as he approached the line. He definitely wasn't guilty.

From the IIDOTR thread

Fetzie wrote:HM: Whoever thought of putting the winner's car on a lift and putting it on the podium.

Apparently it was Jenson Button who thought of it at the Canadian GP per the Ted Kravitz notebook. This may of course be nonsense...

Fair enough, I don't remember exactly now how far behind Hamilton was, but from memory it was enough time to be able to react imo. There's an article on Autosport where Max himself is saying the same thing, but yeah doesn't really matter anymore.

Btw why was the VSC called on the first lap of the race? Debris? No explanation was given on-screen.

I was away this weekend and, as I took day off work today for coming home, watched the race this afternoon having managed to avoid hearing any news of it.

While it was entertaining in parts, it was once again massively disappointing that what seemed to be building to a big fight at the end between several drivers never happened. Grudging respect to Hamilton for keeping his tyres going, though. I was one of those - like the man himself - who thought he'd stopped far too early.

Nuppiz wrote:Btw why was the VSC called on the first lap of the race? Debris? No explanation was given on-screen.

Bits from Hamilton's floor on track.

Well, firstly I think I have revised my view of the track. I said it was a bit 'meh' , and I'm not keen on the layout. But having watched practice, quallie and the race I have to say that the slippy surface means that it was pretty good . Turn 1, T12 (?) into the stadium and the last corner all seemed to pose a proper challenge. And it was so slippy that even the 'esses' had them running out of grip at times.

And the penalty for keeping your foot down with waved yellows ( and no green after the incident) has to be enough to deter drivers from posing a risk to track workers who may be coming onto the track ( downstream of the incident) or just driving over debris . I still recall Alonso in Brazil 2003 thinking the incident must be behind him , keeping his foot down and winding up with a hospital visit after hitting debris.

Paul Hayes wrote: I was one of those - like the man himself - who thought he'd stopped far too early.

I used to think Hamilton was a big whiner. But I am now convinced its actually all an act. He knows everyone is listening in and so he lies the whole race. And it works.

Hamilton frustrates me, he is probably doing it to dupe everyone, but hearing his constant whining on the radio is so annoying, just get on with it bro, constant whining.

And the whole race felt like ti was shaping up to be a great one, and thnw just nothing... It felt fairly inevitable and typical that Hamilton made his tyres last/was on the right strategy, and Ferrari somehow threw this away.

It feels like this should go down as an all time great win. Off at the first corner, sat in 4th, and somehow pulls a win out the bag, and yet it was so anti-climatic. Just everyone going as slow as possible, I always felt refuelling killed it but went back to watch some of the old races and it was exciting watching people sprint race...