Grand Prix Rejects

In an area where we talk about the weird and wacko of F1, there are many occasions where things could have gone much, much more crazier than reality. With that in mind, what are the rumoured moves straight from the grapevine that never materialised? Could they have changed the course of F1 as we know it had they happened, or would they have wound up as a mere footnote, resigned to being minor slipups for Sporcle quizes?

To start off, here are a couple :

Roman Rusinov (Caterham, 2014)
- curiously, this wouldn't be the current LMP2 driver's first foray into F1 - he was able to conduct a few tests for the newly-formed Midland F1 squad at the end of 2005 (out of 4 test drivers, he was the only one unable to compete in Friday free practice the following year, due to insufficient roubles). At the eve of the inaugural Russian GP, the then-32-year-old was linked to take over Kamui Kobayashi's ride for the meet, but that never came to pass, for better or for worse (most definitely the latter).

Kimi Raikkonen (Robby Gordon Motorsports, 2011)
- Wait....WHAT?? In the middle of Kimi's F1 hiatus, in addition to his WRC tenure, he went Stateside to ol' NASCAR, where he competed in one Trucks and one Nationwide Series event for KBM and NEMCO respectively. But more seemed to be around the corner, where his manager Todd Hirschfield arranged a test with Robby Gordon Motorsports, founded by the madlad himself/CART race winner/Stadium Super Trucks founder, who himself snagged a few Cup Series victories (and lost one in laughable fashion), with a view to a Cup Series appearance at Sonoma/Watkins Glen. However, whilst testing at Virginia International Raceway, after a few laps he went off circuit and rooted the front splitter - in classic Kimi fashion, he got out and flew to Monaco right away.

Dave Coyne (Jordan, 1991)
- A star in Formula Fords throughout the 80s, he was phoned by Stan Oldacre, the finance blokie for the fledgling Jordan F1 squad, who had a vacancy after Bertrand Gachot decided to commit the kek on that London cabbie. Dave was on the shortlist of potential replacements - which included Roland Ratzenberger, Ross Cheever, Keke Rosberg, Derek Warwick and Stefan Johansson - and needed to get a license if he was to get the gig, but this proved academic as Eddie Jordan had already taken a chance on some punk German kid for Spa - and we all know how that turned out.

Rick Mears (1980, Brabham)
- Having come off an Indy 500 triumph and CART title the previous year, Bernie Ecclestone gave him a series of tests in the BT49, where he impressed the likes of Herbie Blash and Charlie Whiting, as well as eventual champion Nelson Piquet, with his polite, smooth, intelligent demeanor. He was rumoured to be piloting a third Brabham at Long Beach, and there were rumblings of the Californian replacing the unimpressive Ricardo Zunino from the France GP onwards, but declined the offer after finding out he had to pay for it, eventually becoming one of the biggest American single-seater icons.

If you've got any on your mind, feel free to add on to the list - it's set to be a burgeoning one, that's for sure!

When I was doing the 1995 season of Nathan van Dijk's virtual career, I came across this rumor, which definitely deserves a mention!

A personal favourite of mine: the first talks of Kimi's return to F1 in 2012 came not with Lotus, but with Williams!

I've wondered for a long time how that would pan out: Pastor Maldonado and Kimi in the same team together during 2012, a year that was weird enough already. What on earth would have happened next? Would it have been the Finn winning in Spain instead of Pastor? Would he have showed up just how weak the real-life Williams drivers were that season? Would he have floundered and been laughed at as an embarrassment?

And what about Lotus? Who would they have snatched as their lead driver without Kimi? Especially if they wanted Grosjean, they would have wanted at least a little maturity alongside their new driver. Would Petrov have stayed on? Would Petrov have won in Abu Dhabi? Would Lotus have tried to snatch someone like Kovalainen back again after such a fantastic 2011 season? Would either Petrov or Heikki have benefitted from this in terms of their career longevity?

That's an interesting one, Rob. Petrov might have kept the seat, although it was clear he wasn't one of the best drivers available. I could see them settle for an experienced driver like Kovalainen or Glock, or could Hulkenberg have been an option?

Alguersuari was in talks with Lotus/Renault before he was persuaded to stay with Red Bull family and then in the end he and Buemi were replaced by Ricciardo and Vergne. And at that point there was no other place to go but if there was no Kimi in Lotus there might have been a drive available.

One interesting one for me is if Alonso had gone to Red Bull for 2008 (Christian Horner did confirm he was in talks). He'd have looked like a genius given what happened to them in the next few years. Though it would have been in place of Webber (who would have gone to Renault instead of Alonso), so presumably after Coulthard retired at the end of 2008 it would have been Alonso/Vettel for 2009 which could have been tasty.

What a minefield Alonso's career had the potential to be. It was already incendiary enough with Flavio, the team relationship with Fisi and Jarno. Then there was the McLaren debacle. Then you would have had a Red Bull implosion around 2010-2011 or so.

I would imagine Alonso leaving after 2011 to... Ferrari I guess then maybe history would right itself. From there, Alonso would have been fighting Vettel for the championship in 2012 as normal and the space-time continuum would stabilise.

What would happen to Webber in that case? Perhaps even if Alonso went to Red Bull, it would be Coulthard who got kicked instead of Mark? Either way, a free Mark Webber could even have had the potential to be picked up by McLaren or someone like that. Maybe Coulthard would make a shock return to McLaren in 2008

And what about a fresh new seat at Red Bull in 2012 to partner Vettel? It would be a nicer timeline in that Alguersuari or Buemi would get promoted. With my guess it would have been Buemi.

tBone wrote:When I was doing the 1995 season of Nathan van Dijk's virtual career, I came across this rumor, which definitely deserves a mention!

Robby Gordon in F1 would have been amazing entertainment, the midfield wouldn't know how to deal with him. Mind you, given this is Robby Gordon we're talking about, I can't imagine him being satisfied with the JS43, it would have been a big step down compared to the Reynards he drove at Walker.

Mark Martin was allegedly going to attempt a BTCC round in 1995, Ford/Valvoline wanted to put him in a third Mondeo alongside Paul Radisich and Kelvin Burt. Sadly nothing came of it, but prime Mark Martin was one of the best NASCAR road course racers of that era, just thinking about what might have been is sad.

Shawn040217 wrote:In an area where we talk about the weird and wacko of F1, there are many occasions where things could have gone much, much more crazier than reality. With that in mind, what are the rumoured moves straight from the grapevine that never materialised? Could they have changed the course of F1 as we know it had they happened, or would they have wound up as a mere footnote, resigned to being minor slipups for Sporcle quizes?

To start off, here are a couple :

Roman Rusinov (Caterham, 2014)
- curiously, this wouldn't be the current LMP2 driver's first foray into F1 - he was able to conduct a few tests for the newly-formed Midland F1 squad at the end of 2005 (out of 4 test drivers, he was the only one unable to compete in Friday free practice the following year, due to insufficient roubles). At the eve of the inaugural Russian GP, the then-32-year-old was linked to take over Kamui Kobayashi's ride for the meet, but that never came to pass, for better or for worse (most definitely the latter).

Kimi Raikkonen (Robby Gordon Motorsports, 2011)
- Wait....WHAT?? In the middle of Kimi's F1 hiatus, in addition to his WRC tenure, he went Stateside to ol' NASCAR, where he competed in one Trucks and one Nationwide Series event for KBM and NEMCO respectively. But more seemed to be around the corner, where his manager Todd Hirschfield arranged a test with Robby Gordon Motorsports, founded by the madlad himself/CART race winner/Stadium Super Trucks founder, who himself snagged a few Cup Series victories (and lost one in laughable fashion), with a view to a Cup Series appearance at Sonoma/Watkins Glen. However, whilst testing at Virginia International Raceway, after a few laps he went off circuit and rooted the front splitter - in classic Kimi fashion, he got out and flew to Monaco right away.

Dave Coyne (Jordan, 1991)
- A star in Formula Fords throughout the 80s, he was phoned by Stan Oldacre, the finance blokie for the fledgling Jordan F1 squad, who had a vacancy after Bertrand Gachot decided to commit the kek on that London cabbie. Dave was on the shortlist of potential replacements - which included Roland Ratzenberger, Ross Cheever, Keke Rosberg, Derek Warwick and Stefan Johansson - and needed to get a license if he was to get the gig, but this proved academic as Eddie Jordan had already taken a chance on some punk German kid for Spa - and we all know how that turned out.

Rick Mears (1980, Brabham)
- Having come off an Indy 500 triumph and CART title the previous year, Bernie Ecclestone gave him a series of tests in the BT49, where he impressed the likes of Herbie Blash and Charlie Whiting, as well as eventual champion Nelson Piquet, with his polite, smooth, intelligent demeanor. He was rumoured to be piloting a third Brabham at Long Beach, and there were rumblings of the Californian replacing the unimpressive Ricardo Zunino from the France GP onwards, but declined the offer after finding out he had to pay for it, eventually becoming one of the biggest American single-seater icons.

If you've got any on your mind, feel free to add on to the list - it's set to be a burgeoning one, that's for sure!

Cor Euser was also an option for Jordan in 1991 - https://champweb.net/once-upon-a-time-c ... ar-driver/

Har1MAS1415 wrote:Cor Euser was also an option for Jordan in 1991 - https://champweb.net/once-upon-a-time-c ... ar-driver/

That was a very interesting story, a case of what might have been, particularly in Indycar.

BTCC 1991:

James Weaver was intended to share the #44 Prodrive BMW with Steve Soper and Christian Danner. The team also intended to run a 3rd car for Jimmy McRae.

Trackstar originally intended to run a trio of Audi 80s for Robb Gravett, Mike Smith and Jonathan Palmer. The team then intended to run Smith and Sean Walker in Ford Sapphires alongside Gravett's entry.

Frank Sytner joined another BMW team and rumoured to be partnering Finnish driver Heikki Salmenautio (though, for some reason, Motorsport Magazine misspelled his name as Hakki Salamentio).

There was a rumour regarding a Honda Concerto making an appearance, either with James Kaye graduating from the CRX Series or Ray Armes, given he had recent BTCC experience with a Civic.

Rumours suggested a Renault and a Lancia would be appearing as privateer entrants.

Also, Alistair Fenwick and Tony Bardy were non-starters in their one-off entries in the #18 Pyramid Motorsport BMW and the Vauxhall Belmont later raced by Jeff Wilson.

Alan Jones and Jody Scheckter were intended to make one-off appearances in the 1998 British Touring Car Championship.

https://www.alfabb.com/threads/alfa-rom ... ans.34309/ - The GT2 version of the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione intended for 2008, anyone?

The secret Volkswagen 1980s F1 project.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... f1-project

dr-baker wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 21:21

Do we think Ralf would have done better or worse than Michael?

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: ↑08 Nov 2023, 02:44

dr-baker wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 21:21

Do we think Ralf would have done better or worse than Michael?

Well, given the list of possible teams, even scoring points would have been a jolly decent showing (apart from Toro Rosso). But taking that into account, who knows. Probably would have been on a par with Jarno Trulli or Timo Glock.

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: ↑08 Nov 2023, 02:44

dr-baker wrote: ↑07 Nov 2023, 21:21

Do we think Ralf would have done better or worse than Michael?

Well he would have found it more difficult while driving for five teams simultaneously

Anyone remember when Toro Rosso wanted to run Sebastien Loeb in Abu Dhabi in 2009 but he wasn't granted a superlicence?

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑11 Nov 2023, 12:29 Anyone remember when Toro Rosso wanted to run Sebastien Loeb in Abu Dhabi in 2009 but he wasn't granted a superlicence?

I remember now that you have reminded me. In the 1990s, we had Colin McRae testing a Jordan. None of the current WRC drivers seem to have the same clout as Solberg, Burns, McRae, etc. Can't see this happening again in the next 5 to 10 years.

dr-baker wrote: ↑11 Nov 2023, 14:32

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑11 Nov 2023, 12:29 Anyone remember when Toro Rosso wanted to run Sebastien Loeb in Abu Dhabi in 2009 but he wasn't granted a superlicence?

I remember now that you have reminded me. In the 1990s, we had Colin McRae testing a Jordan. None of the current WRC drivers seem to have the same clout as Solberg, Burns, McRae, etc. Can't see this happening again in the next 5 to 10 years.

Tommi Mäkinen and motorbike world champion Mick Doohan also tested a Williams FW19 (painted in 1998 colours) as part of a Winfield promotion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIugV2uRNR0

Both ended up binning it, Mäkinen a bit worse than Doohan.

Jacques Villeneuve and Kazuki Nakajima were allegedly the intended drivers for Stefan GP in 2010.

https://f1nostalgia.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... 0.html?m=1
Fabrizio Giovanardi being expected to race for the Life team in 1990.

Outside chance or not, Roberto Ravaglia being linked to Coloni for 1989 has got to be one of the most outlandish rumours in F1 History, if not all time.

Does anybody on here know much about this?

Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑06 Dec 2023, 22:54 https://f1nostalgia.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... 0.html?m=1
Fabrizio Giovanardi being expected to race for the Life team in 1990.

Autosport said Fabrizio Giovanardi was expected to test the Life. This is what I get for having to translate Portuguese to English online.

There has been some news about Carlos Sainz's contract extension with Ferrari beyond 2024. I think that we are likely to see Carlos with Ferrari in 2025 and a few years more as well.

Jarvis wrote: ↑23 Dec 2023, 19:20 There has been some news about Carlos Sainz's contract extension with Ferrari beyond 2024. I think that we are likely to see Carlos with Ferrari in 2025 and a few years more as well.

I have the feeling that perhaps this is a somewhat erroneous place to put this post, given the thread is more about historical unusual proposed moves instead of more contemporary discussions.

As for the discussions over Sainz, well, The Race have suggested that Ferrari have offered Sainz what's termed a "one plus one" deal, where he'd have one year with a guaranteed seat and then an option to extend the contract for one more year after that. Sainz, by contrast, apparently wants a longer term deal - perhaps motivated in part by the claims in La Gazzetta dello Sport that Leclerc signed a five year deal with Ferrari (although it's claimed that, from 2027 onwards, there is a performance based clause that would allow both sides to terminate the deal before it expires in 2029).

It's plausible to me that we'll see some sort of agreement reached between them - Ferrari seem keen enough on Sainz, even if Vasseur seems keen to build the team around Leclerc, as Sainz has generally been a solid enough points scorer over time.

Just how many teams was the late Andrea de Cesaris linked to during his F1 Career that he never actually drove for?

Zakspeed for 1988.
AGS for 1991.
Simtek for 1994. (Given what eventually happened to Ratzenberger and Montermini, he probably did the right thing not joining, could have gone full circle with his "De Crasheris" reputation)

Any others?