Grand Prix Rejects

Mind you, even Croft and Brundle seemed a little off-the-boil today - neither of them appeared to make any comment at all on the fact that Perez had passed Leclerc, the race leader, in the first round of stops.

I'm pleased for Perez, as I expect most people are. Even though it's always frustrating when you see cars nose-to-tail like that with no attempts at passing at the end, on this occasion - perhaps because it was an unusual winner - it still felt very tense and exciting.

Yes, that key moment when Perez moved up wasnt really noticed. At times like this I recall those 3 stop races with refuelling and everyone having started on quallie fuel from years back, when no one had much idea who was doing well until 80% of the way into the race and every overtake was subject to speculation as to whether they were on low fuel and would stop again soon, or not.

I enjoyed the race and the tension of of the nose-to-tail stuff, even knowing a pass was unlikely . But Gasly made a pass, Hamilton had a good go, and further down I think there was a pass or two we didnt see. BTW am I the only one who thought that TV director didnt seem to like showing the track up the hill and round to Portier as much as they liked the chicane and swimming pool ?

What a nightmare for Ferrari - and what a turnaround from Red Bull's double-DNF in the opening race. That's a reminder that these things can easily swing back-and-forth, of course, but with the suspicion cast by those other Ferrari failures today from the customer teams too... It's starting to look pretty bleak for them.

Paul Hayes wrote: ↑12 Jun 2022, 12:50 What a nightmare for Ferrari - and what a turnaround from Red Bull's double-DNF in the opening race. That's a reminder that these things can easily swing back-and-forth, of course, but with the suspicion cast by those other Ferrari failures today from the customer teams too... It's starting to look pretty bleak for them.

Well, Leclerc was already expected to have to take at least one penalty after losing the turbocharger and MGU-H units from the power unit he used in Spain, which was why he was having to use the turbocharger and MGU-H from his first power unit on this engine. Now, not only has he lost a turbocharger and MGU-H, you suspect that he's probably lost an engine as well - so it might even be multiple power unit penalties in the latter part of this season. Things do seem to be coming apart very quickly for Ferrari...

Things could and will get worse for Ferrari as they would be expected to take some engine penalties later on in the season and retiring from races now is just making Verstappen and Red Bull smile even more.

Personally (trying to curse this as much as possible) I reckon we are now heading for a Red Bull 2013 domination and I wouldn't be surprised if Max wins 15-18 races this season ( i know the number 18 is worrying because we have had 8 races already and he has won 5 of them which by my numbers would mean Max will not win only 1 more race this year)

And who said Ham Bot Ver was boring...

Ferrari have been quoted as saying that they would rather have a fast yet unreliable car rather than reliable and not fast.

dr-baker wrote: ↑13 Jun 2022, 11:35 Ferrari have been quoted as saying that they would rather have a fast yet unreliable car rather than reliable and not fast.

Worked for Eddie Jordan, didn't it?

Porpoising is quickly gaining traction in its campaign for Reject of the Year.

Here's wishing everybody involved to come healthy out of this season.

From the Azerbaijani RoTR thread:

Wallio wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 01:08HM: Mercedes: Raise your ride height and shut up. You have no chance to win this year anyway, a slight performance loss is nothing for you.

Not sure it is as simple as that. Did you see Woolf and Chandock going through the slo-mos of the floor? It seems that it is very flexible towards the edges so tends to bend down towards the track, unlike most other cars which are installing stays to keep the floor edge reasonably stiff. The Mercedes problem may be systemic to their radical "no sidepod" philosophy so other significant (and thus costly) changes might be required to resolve the sucky floor edges. Aston Martin apparently designed two cars for the season and showed a willingness to change so it is not impossible.

I am in two minds about this. Yes, Mecedes can fix it at the cost of performance (so why would they?) or the FIA can introduce a relevant rule but what if (i) a set ride height does not cure the problem (or does but only for selected teams) and (ii) why should Mercedes effectively get a performance advantage after other teams did a better engineering job? I guess the answer lies with the drivers (who after all are the ones suffering and might be permanently injured) rather than the teams/FIA.

Canada will be interesting...

dr-baker wrote: ↑13 Jun 2022, 11:35 Ferrari have been quoted as saying that they would rather have a fast yet unreliable car rather than reliable and not fast.

To be fair Horner said the same thing post-Melbourne.

Hell, my Old Man said the same thing more than once when I raced and ended up parked up on fire somewhere. It may not be the most sensible position, but it's not exactly a radical one.

IceG wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 07:48 From the Azerbaijani RoTR thread:

Wallio wrote: ↑14 Jun 2022, 01:08HM: Mercedes: Raise your ride height and shut up. You have no chance to win this year anyway, a slight performance loss is nothing for you.

Not sure it is as simple as that. Did you see Woolf and Chandock going through the slo-mos of the floor? It seems that it is very flexible towards the edges so tends to bend down towards the track, unlike most other cars which are installing stays to keep the floor edge reasonably stiff. The Mercedes problem may be systemic to their radical "no sidepod" philosophy so other significant (and thus costly) changes might be required to resolve the sucky floor edges. Aston Martin apparently designed two cars for the season and showed a willingness to change so it is not impossible.

I am in two minds about this. Yes, Mecedes can fix it at the cost of performance (so why would they?) or the FIA can introduce a relevant rule but what if (i) a set ride height does not cure the problem (or does but only for selected teams) and (ii) why should Mercedes effectively get a performance advantage after other teams did a better engineering job? I guess the answer lies with the drivers (who after all are the ones suffering and might be permanently injured) rather than the teams/FIA.

Canada will be interesting...

The response from the FIA has been to issue a new technical directive ahead of the Canadian GP, with the FIA stating that it intends to implement the following measures:

1. Closer scrutiny of the planks and skids, both in terms of their design and the observed wear
2. The definition of a metric, based on the car’s vertical acceleration, that will give a quantitative limit for acceptable level of vertical oscillations. The exact mathematical formula for this metric is still being analysed by the FIA, and the Formula 1 teams have been invited to contribute to this process.

In addition to these short-term measures, the FIA will convene a technical meeting with the teams in order to define measures that will reduce the propensity of cars to exhibit such phenomena in the medium term.

The indications are that the FIA will set limits on oscillation for FP3, with any teams that are found to breach those limits being mandated to run a higher minimum ride height. If any cars are found to still breach those limits, then the FIA will begin disqualifying cars.

It seems that quite a few are thinking that this is perhaps even more likely to gift the title to Red Bull, given that Ferrari is amongst those that has been impacted by porpoising at times. That said, the discussion about potential longer term measures does suggest that the FIA has perhaps realised that their original decision to scrap most of the suspension systems that the teams were using in 2021 to improve ride quality was a mistake, and might be prepared to roll back that decision.

There's been a graph circulating around that may or may not be official, which shows the g-force the different team cars were experiencing in Baku. While most teams were around the same level, there was one specific team that was a mile worse than everyone else.

If that graph is accurate and the action taken is suitably reactive to its suggestion, it seems only one team will change massively in the pecking order - although I'm not an engineer, perhaps other teams will have trouble too.

If it is reactive in the way I would assume, it will be fascinating to see who becomes the third fastest team in Mercedes' absence.

Rob Dylan wrote: ↑17 Jun 2022, 11:21 There's been a graph circulating around that may or may not be official, which shows the g-force the different team cars were experiencing in Baku. While most teams were around the same level, there was one specific team that was a mile worse than everyone else.

If that graph is accurate and the action taken is suitably reactive to its suggestion, it seems only one team will change massively in the pecking order - although I'm not an engineer, perhaps other teams will have trouble too.

If it is reactive in the way I would assume, it will be fascinating to see who becomes the third fastest team in Mercedes' absence.

I have seen that figure, but am treating it with a pinch of salt because it does seem to conflict with the feedback from the drivers - for example, it seemed to suggest that McLaren had no issues, but Ricciardo stated after that race that he had been very badly shaken up, both physically and mentally, due to porpoising.

Yeah, graphic will never 100% directly translate to reality on any day. It may also be a case that Ricciardo wasn't as physically ready for the race as others, for whatever reason.

Really looking forward to today's race. It feels like one of those ones where so many unlikely candidates on the grid must be thinking, "Could be a big result here for us today..."

Paul Hayes wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 17:32 Really looking forward to today's race. It feels like one of those ones where so many unlikely candidates on the grid must be thinking, "Could be a big result here for us today..."

The only thing that could increase the anticipation for this race for me would be a realistic chance of variable weather...

Not quite the madhouse I was hoping for, but it held the interest, and it wasn't quite the procession for Verstappen at the front that it might have been.

Paul Hayes wrote: ↑19 Jun 2022, 19:47 Not quite the madhouse I was hoping for, but it held the interest, and it wasn't quite the procession for Verstappen at the front that it might have been.

A wet race would likely have produced the madhouse we were hoping for, but having cars out of position on the grid and a few safety cars provided overtaking and pit stop strategies. It was not a procession.

Juri Vips suspended for racist slur on stream.

Absolute bloody fool. He had the world at his feet. His career imploded, all his own doing.

Even if he does recover his career he will always be tainted with this. A warning to other drivers that you have to keep your private views away from prying eyes otherwise you could be done with.

I wonder if there’ll come a point where professional sports teams (not just F1) will start writing it into contracts that the athlete is barred from taking part in online gaming streams. He’s not the first to get done for something he shouldn’t have done (Daniel Abt and Kyle Larson to name but two).

TomPryce wrote: ↑21 Jun 2022, 22:26 Juri Vips suspended for racist slur on stream.

Absolute bloody fool. He had the world at his feet. His career imploded, all his own doing.

There are suggestions that he compounded that with some comments that had homophobic connotations, which has also raised questions about his conduct.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 10:41 I wonder if there’ll come a point where professional sports teams (not just F1) will start writing it into contracts that the athlete is barred from taking part in online gaming streams. He’s not the first to get done for something he shouldn’t have done (Daniel Abt and Kyle Larson to name but two).

Some might, but on the other hand we have seen several teams also take advantage of their drivers getting involved in live streamed events, such as Norris for McLaren and Sainz for Ferrari's own e-sports events. Some might introduce a ban, but I suspect that more will simply find ways to reduce the risk of a similar incident occurring.

mario wrote: ↑22 Jun 2022, 19:27Some might, but on the other hand we have seen several teams also take advantage of their drivers getting involved in live streamed events, such as Norris for McLaren and Sainz for Ferrari's own e-sports events. Some might introduce a ban, but I suspect that more will simply find ways to reduce the risk of a similar incident occurring.

Content policy. It's a common thing in the entertainment business, where streamers have to follow specific guidelines.

I'm curious to see how an incident like this on the international stage affects a driver. During the million and a half amateur fill-in e series that popped up during COVID, Bubba Wallace, Santino Ferrucci, and most notably Kyle Larson, all got in trouble for (wildly) different incidents. All three are none the worse for wear now.

Wallio wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022, 15:47 I'm curious to see how an incident like this on the international stage affects a driver. During the million and a half amateur fill-in e series that popped up during COVID, Bubba Wallace, Santino Ferrucci, and most notably Kyle Larson, all got in trouble for (wildly) different incidents. All three are none the worse for wear now.

It seems like it's affected Juri Vips quite seriously. Red Bull have ended their contract with him today and who knows if he's even going to be driving this weekend...

Rob Dylan wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022, 19:50

Wallio wrote: ↑28 Jun 2022, 15:47 I'm curious to see how an incident like this on the international stage affects a driver. During the million and a half amateur fill-in e series that popped up during COVID, Bubba Wallace, Santino Ferrucci, and most notably Kyle Larson, all got in trouble for (wildly) different incidents. All three are none the worse for wear now.

It seems like it's affected Juri Vips quite seriously. Red Bull have ended their contract with him today and who knows if he's even going to be driving this weekend...

So he's taking the Kyle Larson route eh? Well that 2024 WDC will be in the bag then.

TomPryce wrote: ↑21 Jun 2022, 22:26 Juri Vips suspended for racist slur on stream.

Absolute bloody fool. He had the world at his feet. His career imploded, all his own doing.

As awful to read as these incidents are it is good that these pricks are being weeded out, bit by bit. Same as that little dickhead who did the Nazi salute. Obviously, there's not a great deal to be done with Nelson Piquet, he's always been an idiot (seriously, how many multiple world champions are remembered so coldly?) maybe a ban from future FIA events? Not sure.

Hopefully it will send out the message that if you really can't get over your irrational bigotry at least keep your trap shut and keep it inside your twisted head.

CoopsII wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 08:26

TomPryce wrote: ↑21 Jun 2022, 22:26 Juri Vips suspended for racist slur on stream.

Absolute bloody fool. He had the world at his feet. His career imploded, all his own doing.

As awful to read as these incidents are it is good that these pricks are being weeded out, bit by bit. Same as that little dickhead who did the Nazi salute. Obviously, there's not a great deal to be done with Nelson Piquet, he's always been an idiot (seriously, how many multiple world champions are remembered so coldly?) maybe a ban from future FIA events? Not sure.

Hopefully it will send out the message that if you really can't get over your irrational bigotry at least keep your trap shut and keep it inside your twisted head.

You might hope so, but it seems that there are quite a few trying to spin Vips as being the victim - a common story seems to be to claim that he listens to a lot of rap by black rappers who use that phrase, and that he was innocently repeating that during that live stream.

As for Nelson Piquet, it has to be said that some other members of his family were originally supporting his use of that language, with Rodrigo Piquet posting on Instagram trying to claim that it was all OK, whilst Kelly Piquet then "liked" that post as well - such that it does go wider than just Nelson. Others seem to be trying to spin the story by claiming that the term that Piquet used was somehow an affectionate term, or that it was not intended to have those racist overtones - even though there are quite a few from Brazil saying that, whilst it can sometimes used in a more affectionate manner between close associates, the way in which Piquet was using it was the more derogatory form.

There is some back pedalling by Nelson now, who is trying to claim that he used that phrase in the non-derogatory sense - though it seems that is considered rather suspect - but I am not sure whether the sport can take that much effective action against him, or even is going to take that much action against him.

Andrew Benson has said on Twitter that, according to what he has heard, Nelson is not going to be allowed back into the paddock again - however, Nelson was already something of a persona non grata in the paddock due to the 'Crashgate' incident, and there were a number of events organised by FOM where Nelson was noticeable by his absence (the 60th and 70th anniversary events for the sport). There might already have been something of a semi-unofficial ban on Nelson being at events, such that the impact of any such ban might be rather small in practice.

Vips confirmed for the rest of the season at Hitech. It's certainly a choice.

Wallio wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 20:17 Vips confirmed for the rest of the season at Hitech. It's certainly a choice.

And the F2 bosses seemed surprised by Hitech's decision, stating that if they were Vips's boss, he wouldn't still be there.

dr-baker wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 20:54 And the F2 bosses seemed surprised by Hitech's decision, stating that if they were Vips's boss, he wouldn't still be there.

Yeah, you have to feel for the series here. Lot of justified bad PR but not much they can do about it, I don't think. Does international single-seater racing have the equivalent to "Actions Detrimental to Stock Car Racing"?

My first response was just to shrug and say "Well yeah, he brings money." Then my brain kicked in: "Wait, he just lost all that money!"

Wallio wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 21:18

dr-baker wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 20:54 And the F2 bosses seemed surprised by Hitech's decision, stating that if they were Vips's boss, he wouldn't still be there.

Yeah, you have to feel for the series here. Lot of justified bad PR but not much they can do about it, I don't think. Does international single-seater racing have the equivalent to "Actions Detrimental to Stock Car Racing"?

F1's version is "bringing the sport into disrepute" I believe.

mario wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 13:14 it seems that there are quite a few trying to spin Vips as being the victim - a common story seems to be to claim that he listens to a lot of rap by black rappers who use that phrase, and that he was innocently repeating that during that live stream.

Aah, that old chestnut. I've listened to Public Enemy for decades but because I've listened to Public Enemy I've been educated about these words, their history and the weight they still carry today. It's disappointing Vips is still racing and I am surprised, ten or fifteen years ago I do believe he would've been finished, but it appears we're going backwards on these issues right now.

Racing drivers past and present - "Let us show you how appalling we are!"

Bernie - "Hold my beer...."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/e ...

By know we should have all realised we shoudln't give Bernie any attention anymore.

CoopsII wrote: ↑30 Jun 2022, 07:36

mario wrote: ↑29 Jun 2022, 13:14 it seems that there are quite a few trying to spin Vips as being the victim - a common story seems to be to claim that he listens to a lot of rap by black rappers who use that phrase, and that he was innocently repeating that during that live stream.

Aah, that old chestnut. I've listened to Public Enemy for decades but because I've listened to Public Enemy I've been educated about these words, their history and the weight they still carry today. It's disappointing Vips is still racing and I am surprised, ten or fifteen years ago I do believe he would've been finished, but it appears we're going backwards on these issues right now.

There are some people out there - in fact, quite a few - who do seem to be arguing that Vips shouldn't have been punished anywhere near as harshly as he was, and are angrily denouncing the usual hate figures.

Speaking of Vips, it seems that Horner has been emphasising that they have not made any comment on the Nelson Piquet incident because they are stating that their dismissal of Vips is proof that they were making a “very strong statement” about not tolerating that sort of behaviour. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/horn ... /10331110/

It seems to be making some from that same group who are arguing that Vips should have been treated more leniently question whether Red Bull chose to fire Vips as a way of distracting attention from the argument about Nelson Piquet and Kelly Piquet's relationship with Max, particularly given that Horner is pointing to Vips's treatment as justification for Red Bull not saying anything about Nelson Piquet. They are thus painting Vips as the fall guy for Max and Red Bull's scapegoat, and using it as a way to garner sympathy for Vips (whilst also distracting from the latter complaint as well).

Watching for the first time in a while on TV, man the gridwalk is pure cringe

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote: ↑03 Jul 2022, 13:38 Watching for the first time in a while on TV, man the gridwalk is pure cringe

This is by no means the cringes by some distance.

This is always a worry when they do not show replays or focus on a particular driver...

Wow, that was a bit of a race wasn't it?

I'm very glad that Zhou and everyone else involved in those first lap incidents are okay.

But the race itself was like watching an F3 race at times - cars running in such long lines nose-to-tail, and even almost four abreast at times! And that action at the end... I don't recall *ever* watching a Grand Prix on TV before where the sound of the crowd reached the point of drowning out the television commentary.

Points to Schumacher at last, too!

Well done to Sainz. Well done to all the drivers for what they risk to give us such great entertainment on a Sunday afternoon.