Nelson Piquet, how long will he last?

Ide · Post by **Ide** » 03 Apr 2009, 20:10

There's plenty of nice gravel traps for ePIQ fail to get stuck in though.
Although with Alonso slightly off-colour (he has an ear infection I believe) this could be Nelsinho's big chance to outqualify Fernando for the first (and possibly last) time.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 03 Apr 2009, 20:36

Ide wrote:There's plenty of nice gravel traps for ePIQ fail to get stuck in though.
Although with Alonso slightly off-colour (he has an ear infection I believe) this could be Nelsinho's big chance to outqualify Fernando for the first (and possibly last) time.

I reckon if Piquet does outqualify Alonso, he'll stuff it up in some way in the first 3 laps or so.

Ide · Post by **Ide** » 03 Apr 2009, 20:56

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Ide wrote:There's plenty of nice gravel traps for ePIQ fail to get stuck in though.
Although with Alonso slightly off-colour (he has an ear infection I believe) this could be Nelsinho's big chance to outqualify Fernando for the first (and possibly last) time.

I reckon if Piquet does outqualify Alonso, he'll stuff it up in some way in the first 3 laps or so.

I think he'll be lucky to survive the first corner if it's raining!

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 03 Apr 2009, 22:39

Let's give the man the proverbial pat in the back: the car seems rubbish to drive, and he was OK even in the event of a big off in the morning, probably caused by a blow-up. But, apparently, Flavio had to shout him to speed!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Apr 2009, 01:42

I think Piquet's biggest problem is Briatore's management style. When Alonso went to McLaren, one of the reasons why they had a falling-out was because Alonso expected similar treatment to what he got at Renault: namely, that he would be considered the number one driver and Lewis Hamilton the number two and that the team would treat them accordingly. While Ferrari used to do this with Schumacher, they don't anymore, leaving Renault the only team that really prioritises its drivers (though ironically enough, McLaren seem to favour Hamilton over Kovalainen); everyone else seems to be a case of treating the drivers equally until one of them is no longer in contention for the title, in which case they will start pinning their efforts on the title contender (though they don't ignore the other guy).

At Renault, it's different, and Piquet is suffering for it. Yes, he makes mistakes, but it's expected of rookie drivers to occasionally screw up. The problem is that Alonso has always been the favoured son of Briatore; he was relatively untested in 2003 when he took Button's place at Benetton. True, Button had a shocking season - he's the only driver to have won Reject of the Year twice and his first was in 2002 - but Briatore always gives Alonso priority. It's somewhat justified, given that he's so talented (even if he is one of drivers people would most like to take a swing at), but it means his team-mate misses out. If Piquet were in an other team, he may well have been droppe by now, but I think he woul also have been given the chance to show what he's really made of.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 Apr 2009, 11:24

Captain Hammer wrote:I think Piquet's biggest problem is Briatore's management style. When Alonso went to McLaren, one of the reasons why they had a falling-out was because Alonso expected similar treatment to what he got at Renault: namely, that he would be considered the number one driver and Lewis Hamilton the number two and that the team would treat them accordingly. While Ferrari used to do this with Schumacher, they don't anymore, leaving Renault the only team that really prioritises its drivers (though ironically enough, McLaren seem to favour Hamilton over Kovalainen); everyone else seems to be a case of treating the drivers equally until one of them is no longer in contention for the title, in which case they will start pinning their efforts on the title contender (though they don't ignore the other guy).

At Renault, it's different, and Piquet is suffering for it. Yes, he makes mistakes, but it's expected of rookie drivers to occasionally screw up. The problem is that Alonso has always been the favoured son of Briatore; he was relatively untested in 2003 when he took Button's place at Benetton. True, Button had a shocking season - he's the only driver to have won Reject of the Year twice and his first was in 2002 - but Briatore always gives Alonso priority. It's somewhat justified, given that he's so talented (even if he is one of drivers people would most like to take a swing at), but it means his team-mate misses out. If Piquet were in an other team, he may well have been droppe by now, but I think he woul also have been given the chance to show what he's really made of.

I'll sort of subscribe to that. It's been terrible years for anyone to make their debut at F1 - as Kovalainen might remember - and in the Schumacher-Benetton years, everyone that went there got steamrolled. I still believe he's a true reject whose Pops sports a great name, though - and his constant acting tough and speaking loud make him true laughing stock. It's a bit like Force India now announcing they're going for the manufacturers title at the end of 2010. :roll:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Apr 2009, 12:32

CarlosFerreira wrote:I'll sort of subscribe to that. It's been terrible years for anyone to make their debut at F1 - as Kovalainen might remember - and in the Schumacher-Benetton years, everyone that went there got steamrolled. I still believe he's a true reject whose Pops sports a great name, though - and his constant acting tough and speaking loud make him true laughing stock. It's a bit like Force India now announcing they're going for the manufacturers title at the end of 2010.

I think that if Piquet had made his debut in a Toro Rosso, it would have been a very different story. He did pretty well at Hockenheim last year, even if the safety car played right into his hands. In addition to Briatore's management style, the thing that really hurts Piquet is his hardware: Renault haven't really made a decent car since 2006. The R28 came good in the later stages of last year, but the new regulations meant they've gone back to the drawing board. I think that if Piquet were to move to another team for 2010, he might have a better shot. While he didn't improve as much as Kovalaien did in his debut, there's potential there. It just hasn't been unlocked yet.

For a while now, I've felt Renault was the worst team to debut with. In the case of Kovalainen, I think he would have done much better with Alonso with his team-mate. I've never thought much of Giancarlo Fisichella, and felt that while he taught Kovalainen to drive, having Alonso as a team-mate would mean he would have learnt to race. But now in the case of Piquet, it's obvious that Briatore is getting in the way. He's the worst team principal in Formula One, too concerned with doting on his favoured drivers - the ones he manages - to be able to pull Renault together. It's one of the reasons Alonso will never go to Ferrari (or probably any other team given what happened at McLaren): despite his tactical brilliance, he comes across as a spoiled child at times.

UberOwnage · Post by **UberOwnage** » 04 Apr 2009, 12:51

He'll last the whole season, but compared to his father Nelsinho hasn't made much of his good fortune at Renault.

Nelson Sr. knew what to do, and won by stealth and consistency. Of course he was a goofball, but he knew how to win.

KSvt · Post by **KSvt** » 05 Apr 2009, 23:48

Peter Windsor talked with Nelson Sr. during the coverage of the race--can't remember if it was before the start or after the red flag--and even he struggled to say anything positive about his son. Windsor threw out something complimentary about the youngster's form late last season, and Sr. wasn't even quick to agree. Poor Nelsinho--not only are all the fans and journalists against him, daddy is too.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 06 Apr 2009, 12:01

KSvt wrote:Peter Windsor talked with Nelson Sr. during the coverage of the race--can't remember if it was before the start or after the red flag--and even he struggled to say anything positive about his son. Windsor threw out something complimentary about the youngster's form late last season, and Sr. wasn't even quick to agree. Poor Nelsinho--not only are all the fans and journalists against him, daddy is too.

All I can say is "Ouch"

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 06 Apr 2009, 13:52

Captain Hammer wrote:I think Piquet's biggest problem is Briatore's management style.

He already complained about that saying that Briatore's criticism doesn't help.

I think he was extremely overrated when he debuted, especially here in Brazil. In 2007, the Brazilian TV coverage was advocating for ditching Kovalainen after his initial mistakes in favour of Piquet, and in 2008, they were making excuses for him. Instead of the general public bashing him, they kept the tradition of bashing Barrichello.
The problem with Piquet I think starts on Saturday, he is the worst qualifier of all - starting from 16th, or below, does no good for his race pace.

On the other hand, it is funny that his 2nd place in Hockemheim was considered a major fluke while Alonso's victory in Singapore was considered by some a result of Alonso's talent. Well, that tells that a driver's future is bleak.

He won't linger in F-1 for too long. He could join his brother (and Gaston Mazzacane) in local Truck racing!

Rodrigo · Post by **Rodrigo** » 11 Apr 2009, 05:17

KSvt wrote:Peter Windsor talked with Nelson Sr. during the coverage of the race--can't remember if it was before the start or after the red flag--and even he struggled to say anything positive about his son. Windsor threw out something complimentary about the youngster's form late last season, and Sr. wasn't even quick to agree. Poor Nelsinho--not only are all the fans and journalists against him, daddy is too.

Well, it's only fair, really. Nelsão (as opposed to Nelsinho

) has been *very* critical of Barrichello in the past, saying that he's not a "winner". Harsh and true. I don't expect him to as critical about his own son, so we will witness a lot of "uncomfortable silences" till the end (middle?) of the season.

The same uncomfortable silences we've been getting in out F1 broadcasts here in Brazil. For some reason that alludes me, the commentators clearly can't speak anything detrimental about the Brazilian drivers. It's never their fault. Maybe the tires were cold, or the track was dirty, the brakes were broken, the Moon was out of alignment. Too much time having Barrichello as their main focus point, I guess. But with Nelsinho we can clearly see that they can't seem to bring themselves to explain away his mistakes. They just sit there, silent, as his car gets stuck on the gravel. I have to say, it's mildly entertaining in and of itself.

To sum it up... Definitively Brazilian Stock Car material :mrgreen:

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 12 Apr 2009, 09:21

i dont think Piquet will see out the season with Renault....

i would like to see Hekki go back to Renault im sure Alonso and Hekki would have fun sharing the "i got screwed by McLaren/Hamilton storys" in the garage

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 12 Apr 2009, 15:31

I'm not sure that Alonso was given strong Number 1 status in the days when Trulli or Fisicella were his team mates. He was just much better than them on the track.

But when he returned licking his wounds from McLaren, then Renault were happy to give him a comfortable home. And Piquet was a convenient undemanding team mate last year. But I can't see the merit in them continuing to run with him this year. I'd give him a couple more races before he's out on his ear.

As to who will replace him, well Flav moves in a mysterious way, and he does have favorite drivers, and drivers that he manages. I'd like to see Antony Davidson, but he might give give Alonso too much trouble.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 13 Apr 2009, 15:02

What would happen if Piquet would suddenly win a Grand Prix? It's possible this year...

And speaking of replacing him, surely Renault can't bring in a BETTER driver... Let's hope they bring back The Great Sakon

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 13 Apr 2009, 15:10

Piquet win a GP??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

even if he was the only car on the track he would find a way to screw it up....

to finish 1st... u 1st have to finish... and for Piquet he has enough trouble even finishing....

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 13 Apr 2009, 15:14

StoneColdSpider wrote:Piquet win a GP??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

even if he was the only car on the track he would find a way to screw it up....

to finish 1st... u 1st have to finish... and for Piquet he has enough trouble even finishing....

Well, if it were ever possible, then surely it'd be this year. I'm not saying I expect it to happen, on the contrary. :mrgreen:

This was entirely hypothetical.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 15 Apr 2009, 17:29

CarlosFerreira wrote:Right, I'll bite the bullet and give my own wild prediction: Nelsinho out before Monaco, Sato (?!) in his seat. Alonso immediately starts a silly conflict with team and leaves to occupy Kimi's place in Ferrari before Budapest, while the Finn is busy chasing another bottle of Smirnoff around the pit lane. Hey, could happen...

As late as it is, I still want to share this picture with you:

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 16 Apr 2009, 08:38

Piquet will last until they find someone else...wins are not that important for Renault, they want to be in the "show"

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 18 Apr 2009, 07:10

Alonso qualifies in 2nd, Piquet in 17th. That ticking sound you're hearing is Piquets time running out.

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 18 Apr 2009, 07:15

I don't think that Piquet is running the new diffuser, and Alonso is probably light on fuel, so the gap is exaggerated. I can still hear the ticking, though.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 18 Apr 2009, 07:24

midgrid wrote:I don't think that Piquet is running the new diffuser, and Alonso is probably light on fuel, so the gap is exaggerated. I can still hear the ticking, though.

I take your point on the diffuser (though giving it to Piquet would be like putting an expensive dress on a pig) but Piquet on light fuel coulden't even get out of Q1. Even if Alonso is lighter then those around him it dosen't change the fact that he got himself into Q3 in the first place.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 18 Apr 2009, 08:02

Alonso on the front row :shock:

Piquet's screwed now
Edit: Oh wait... Qualifying was an hour ago?
Well looks like ONE HD has failed it's purpose already :roll:

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 18 Apr 2009, 10:06

if Piquet Jr was a race horse he would have been shot a long time ago....

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Apr 2009, 10:23

Nuppiz wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Right, I'll bite the bullet and give my own wild prediction: Nelsinho out before Monaco, Sato (?!) in his seat. Alonso immediately starts a silly conflict with team and leaves to occupy Kimi's place in Ferrari before Budapest, while the Finn is busy chasing another bottle of Smirnoff around the pit lane. Hey, could happen...

As late as it is, I still want to share this picture with you:

Brilliant! Haven't laughed so hard for a while.

LukeB, I don't think the clock ticks for Piquet depending on his results. I am, however, expecting him to pull a big one, that sends half the grid into a pile of heap, when he actually qualifies a bit ahead. Something that makes all us fans of Ide cry his leaving F1 into modeling or something.

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 18 Apr 2009, 11:42

im starting to wonder if Piquet Jr is a paydriver and Piquet Sr is paying for his ride

nit · Post by **nit** » 18 Apr 2009, 13:17

are we aloud to start rumors?.... well i gonna, i say within the next 4 races bruno senna will replace mr Piquet Jr

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Apr 2009, 14:29

nit wrote:are we aloud to start rumors?.... well i gonna, i say within the next 4 races bruno senna will replace mr Piquet Jr

If the concept is "who ever has a resounding name gets the wheel", Mansell's kids will be in the run as well.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 18 Apr 2009, 14:47

CarlosFerreira wrote:
nit wrote:are we aloud to start rumors?.... well i gonna, i say within the next 4 races bruno senna will replace mr Piquet Jr

If the concept is "who ever has a resounding name gets the wheel", Mansell's kids will be in the run as well.

And there's Mathias Lauda as well.

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 18 Apr 2009, 14:53

im sure F1Rs favourite son... Ralf Schumacher... could b on the shortlist too

we all know hes no threat to Alonso....
untill Alonso comes to lap him tho....

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 19 Apr 2009, 00:01

StoneColdSpider wrote:untill Alonso comes to lap him tho....

Anyways Piquet MUST perform well this race or he may be gone by Bahrain

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 19 Apr 2009, 11:47

Piquet is now surely going to be gone by Europe if he doesn't come on the podium in Bahrain. I mean, he went through how many wings? He spun more times then anyone could count. Even the US commentators were saying, "Nelson Piquet is one of those drivers who really needs to step up his game" or something along those lines. I see a future in NASCAR soon. Or Brazillian stock cars.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:09

i think Nelsinho is about to become a victim of another one of Flavio's driver killing sessions. The question is will it be before Bahrain or After Bahrain

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 19 Apr 2009, 14:01

i think he has to go but i dont see him going....
Flav likes him cause of his crapness.....
it makes Alonso clear number 1 in the team and thats the way Alonso likes it....
and when Alonso is happy Flav is happy.....

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 19 Apr 2009, 17:58

Does Renault sell cars in Japan? If they don't, there's no point in getting Sato in. Either way, I maintain he'll be gone before Monaco.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 19 Apr 2009, 19:59

OK now already know that Nelsinho is taking a while to learn a new track, that he's still learning how to develop a car and that he's not a driver who likes the rain. Still, his GP2 efforts have shown that he has got the speed. The only series I can come up with where you have a spec car, the same tracks all over again and where it doesn't rain is NASCAR. I think I said that before.
Has he raced on an oval before?

I think Renault should keep him for this year. But if they decide to give the drive to somebody else, who could it be?
They wouldn't want to let another rookie drive the car, which is not an easy car to drive by any means. That rules out their No. 3 driver Romain Grosjean. And it rules out Bruno Senna, who is wanted in the series by the FOM himself, Bernie Ecclestone.
Who else is left, who has got a license and is sidelined without a ride? Anthony Davidson seems to be linked to Brawn in some capacity as is Alexander Wurz. So they don't qualify. Takuma Sato? Franck Montagny?

I think what the team needs now is Franck Montagny, who is a reknowned development driver, who knows how this team works from inside and who is consistent. These are all advantages he has over Takuma Sato.
The main disadvantage is that Flav has dropped him before, and Flav may not want to go back to him and re-hire him.
Still, Montagny is without a ride at the time, but I'm pretty sure he would be wonderfully well motivated and faster to learn the car than any of the others, because since he was with Renault, he has driven a lot of different cars and has learned how to adapt quickly to an unknown car, which is a benefit in these days of the testing ban. He'd surely jump at the chance to finish the season.

wombat · Post by **wombat** » 19 Apr 2009, 20:22

Does Flav manage Piquet?

If he is bitching about the cost of the diffuser , he won't like having to get a new driver

All this cost over run is eating into his golden handshake at the end of the season - if one was somewhat cynical about it all

I reckon Piquet will be there for a while yet

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 19 Apr 2009, 21:00

Anthony Davidson.

Offer him the race seat, and see how long he remains linked to Brawn for.

But in order to qualify to replace Nelsinho, you must be (a) managed by Flav, (b) not be likely to worry Alonso.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 19 Apr 2009, 23:14

Renault should do a deal with Toro Rosso to get the Frenchman behind the wheel. French driver for the French team. That'll free the STR seat for Taku.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 19 Apr 2009, 23:15

RejectSteve wrote:Renault should do a deal with Toro Rosso to get the Frenchman behind the wheel. That'll free the STR seat for Taku.

But what happens on the off chance that Bourdais accidentally escapes rejectdom?