2023 Discussion Thread

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I agree that I don't think Red Bull will win every race, but one wonders how far they'll go this season. I think it's highly likely they'll pass Ferrari's old mark, they'll be pulling out all the stops at the Netherlands and they've got the fastest top speed for Monza.

The races are still exciting, as you mentioned Wallio, just a bit further back. The nice thing about a dominant season is once it looks like it's all wrapped up, the leading team can stop development and maybe someone else can squeak a win.

[mario]

I agree that I don't think Red Bull will win every race, but one wonders how far they'll go this season. I think it's highly likely they'll pass Ferrari's old mark, they'll be pulling out all the stops at the Netherlands and they've got the fastest top speed for Monza.

The races are still exciting, as you mentioned Wallio, just a bit further back. The nice thing about a dominant season is once it looks like it's all wrapped up, the leading team can stop development and maybe someone else can squeak a win.

Horner has indicated that Red Bull has already been focussing more of their development work on their 2024 car - however, even with that, I am not sure it will be quite as easy for other teams to catch up with Red Bull.

The introduction of the aerodynamic testing restrictions and the budget cap have to be taken into consideration as counterweights to how much a team can develop their car during a season.

The aero testing restrictions mean that, as a team gets closer to the front, the potential margin it might have in terms of wind tunnel testing is steadily reduced and thus the fewer iterations it can carry out in refining their design (particularly with the re-set mechanism that kicks in during the season).

The budget cap, meanwhile, introduces a lower finite limit on what can be spent on developing a car during the season. Whilst some teams might have lower overhead costs that might enable them to do a bit more development than their rivals, they are probably not going to be orders of magnitude cheaper to develop.

To some extent, some teams do seem to already be running into some of those issues - for example, at the start of this year, Aston Martin was already having to ease off their recruitment drive because they were rapidly reaching the point where those additional employee costs would start eating into development budgets.

As for McLaren, they have been attracting attention because of their development, although I wonder if that perhaps is more of a case of the team putting itself back where it should have been from the start of the season.

Anyway, back in 2022, they admitted towards the end of that season that, with the lowering of the budget cap for 2023, they wouldn't be able to develop the car as aggressively in 2023 because of those constraints. When it became apparent that they were in some trouble in early 2023, they outlined their plans for developing the car this year, and their plan was to concentrate development into three major upgrade packages - the first two of which have already been introduced.

If that is the case, then McLaren only has one significant upgrade package left in the pipeline - after that, you're looking at minor circuit specific modifications at most for the rest of 2023.

It's why I think it's possible that, as we get towards the latter part of this season, I suspect we will see less variety in the running order and teams unlikely to make major headway into Red Bull's lead - the diminishing advantages in terms of development hours and the depletion of their development budget towards the end of the season means most teams probably won't have the resources to be able to out-develop the teams around them, and similarly the teams are less likely to make headway relative to Red Bull.

[IceG]

Perez has another rival for that Red Bull seat it seems /s

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10010 ... ng-banned/

It would be great if anyone here is a lawyer and can translate the explanatory word-salad in the story.

The greater concern is that Mazepin may now be able to show he is free to drive in F1 and thus can take legal action against Haas who replaced him because he was sanctioned and thus unable to drive.

Meanwhile Haas Automation may be pushing the limits of what sanctions mean:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/u-s-c ... technology

There are more Russian links what with Haas F1 having purchased some of the bankrupt Marussia assets...

[dr-baker]

Andretti has the money but has the American car racing handicaps of (i) not understanding the European roots and culture of F1 and (ii) not (yet) understanding the need for a European factory to attract experienced talent...

So you are suggesting that he has not learnt from his 1993 season as a McLaren driver, where he did not succeed partly as a result of being an American, based in America, yet racing in Europe…

[IceG]

Andretti has the money but has the American car racing handicaps of (i) not understanding the European roots and culture of F1 and (ii) not (yet) understanding the need for a European factory to attract experienced talent...

So you are suggesting that he has not learnt from his 1993 season as a McLaren driver, where he did not succeed partly as a result of being an American, based in America, yet racing in Europe…

Ye Gods! Is it the same Andretti?

For some reason I thought it was father and son - so reject moi.

But to your question, yes I do not think he has learnt yet.

Our rebellious colonial friends keep banging their cultural style up against the ancient walls of F1 to no avail. Perhaps Liberty might weaken those defences over time but I still see that tight Eurocentricity at the heart of all the teams except Haas. Such iconoclasticism is probably needed though some elements (the constant razamataz and pizzaz, and the use of celebrity stooge stand-ins on the grid to make it interesting) are crass. Perhaps the difference lies in European motorsport having its origins in the pre-Great War elites whilst American motorsport is more blue collar? Either way it would need a strong European TP to guide the team owners as well as the team itself.

[mario]

Perez has another rival for that Red Bull seat it seems /s

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10010 ... ng-banned/

It would be great if anyone here is a lawyer and can translate the explanatory word-salad in the story.

The greater concern is that Mazepin may now be able to show he is free to drive in F1 and thus can take legal action against Haas who replaced him because he was sanctioned and thus unable to drive.

I wouldn't call myself a lawyer, but basically the argument seems to be that Nikita has not been directly involved with the conflict in Ukraine, either through actions designed to support the Russian military or by helping the Russian government fund the conflict, and therefore can participate in events in the EU if he competes under a neutral flag.

Andretti has the money but has the American car racing handicaps of (i) not understanding the European roots and culture of F1 and (ii) not (yet) understanding the need for a European factory to attract experienced talent...

So you are suggesting that he has not learnt from his 1993 season as a McLaren driver, where he did not succeed partly as a result of being an American, based in America, yet racing in Europe…

Ye Gods! Is it the same Andretti?

For some reason I thought it was father and son - so reject moi.

But to your question, yes I do not think he has learnt yet.

Our rebellious colonial friends keep banging their cultural style up against the ancient walls of F1 to no avail. Perhaps Liberty might weaken those defences over time but I still see that tight Eurocentricity at the heart of all the teams except Haas. Such iconoclasticism is probably needed though some elements (the constant razamataz and pizzaz, and the use of celebrity stooge stand-ins on the grid to make it interesting) are crass. Perhaps the difference lies in European motorsport having its origins in the pre-Great War elites whilst American motorsport is more blue collar? Either way it would need a strong European TP to guide the team owners as well as the team itself.

Andretti has said in the past that his plans do include having a design team and production facilities in Europe, so he is already looking at the latter aspect.

That said, some of Michael's more recent comments do raise a few questions - he's said that he doesn't just want to enter Formula 1, he also wants to simultaneously run Formula 2 and Formula 3 teams and create his own junior driver school, all of which would be run from the same office in the UK.

Added to that, he's also continuing to expand into other racing series - the Andretti's have recently announced a partnership with the Spire Motorsport NASCAR Cup team, with Michael Andretti also openly talking about how he's looking to purchase a franchise in NASCAR and to expand into that series as well.

If that were all to come to fruition, Andretti Motorsport would be competing in IndyCar, IndyCar NXT, NASCAR Cup and the IMSA SportsCar Championship in the USA, the Supercar Championship in Australia, plus Formula 1, Formula 2, Formula 3 and Formula E in Europe. That would be a major expansion of his racing team in just a couple of years - is Michael perhaps trying to expand into too many motorsport series all at once?

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

Did Haas specifically say that he would not be able to race because of his nationality? The Russian invasion took place in February 2022 and I'm certain he was replaced before then.I would have thought it would've been fairly straightforward for Haas to assert that his services were not being kept for 2022 as 'his performance was not up to the required standard'-would be very hard to disagree with that!

[Rob Dylan]

Mazepin did the first pre season test with Haas so it was very late in the game before he was replaced. It'd be hard to say they'd suddenly lost faith in him coincidentally two weeks after the invasion.

[RAK]

It'd be a crying shame if he was given a drive again; he's got that trifecta of being a poor driver, being a belligerent and obnoxious driver and of course, there's the whole thing of promoting Putinism via allowing Russian drivers who have not overtly disavowed themselves of the regime (and in the case of Mazepin himself, having connections to it).

[mario]

Did Haas specifically say that he would not be able to race because of his nationality? The Russian invasion took place in February 2022 and I'm certain he was replaced before then.I would have thought it would've been fairly straightforward for Haas to assert that his services were not being kept for 2022 as 'his performance was not up to the required standard'-would be very hard to disagree with that!

No, but I believe that the Russian motorsport federation is still suspended from the FIA, so licences issued by them cannot be used in those series. It is why Kvyat, for example, uses an Italian licence, whilst Schwartzman uses an Israeli licence.

In the case of Mazepin, he has registered as a neutral athlete, which is another option a driver could use to get around the licence issue.

[dinizintheoven]

Talking of alternative racing licences, and alternative passports: we all know Roy Nissany has an "alternative nationality" (i.e. French) so that he can get into all the Islamic dictatorships in the Middle East to race - but what about Ido Cohen?

Apparently, Bahrain and the UAE no longer have a problem with Israeli citizens and even Qatar has softened up a bit, thus allowing him to race in Bahrain, Dubai and Abu Dhabi in F3 and the Formula Regional Asian Championship. And though there's no evidence whatsoever that he'll make it as far as F1 on his current performance, there is no guarantee that other FIA-sanctioned international series won't attempt further races in Saudi Arabia, where Israeli passport holders will be turned away at the border. He might decide to race in Formula E - and as it stands, that would mean sitting out every round held in Diriyah. Would any FE team ever be willing to take him on, even backmarkers like NIO, if they knew he couldn't compete in the whole season?

(Aside: if I was in that same position I wouldn't be throwing too many tantrums. I will never set foot in Saudi Arabia for as long as I draw breath.)

Alon Day is another Israeli driver with no listed "alternative nationality", though he seems to be ignoring the potential passport problem by racing in NASCAR. 'MURICA! Oh say can you see... etc etc etc.

[Ataxia]

Did Haas specifically say that he would not be able to race because of his nationality? The Russian invasion took place in February 2022 and I'm certain he was replaced before then.I would have thought it would've been fairly straightforward for Haas to assert that his services were not being kept for 2022 as 'his performance was not up to the required standard'-would be very hard to disagree with that!

It was basically anticipating sanctions being placed on Russia and terminating the Uralkali deal - Haas then used that as an opportunity to get a competent driver in. Let's be honest, he ain't coming back - he'll spend the rest of his career in endurance racing and rally raid. Nobody can force a team to run a driver they don't want...

Talking of alternative racing licences, and alternative passports: we all know Roy Nissany has an "alternative nationality" (i.e. French) so that he can get into all the Islamic dictatorships in the Middle East to race - but what about Ido Cohen?

I think given his performances, it would be surprising if it became an issue...

There's nothing to do in Saudi Arabia anyway, unless you really like Dunkin' Donuts or looking at building sites.

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

Surely it would be part of the FIA's regulations that in order to permit the running of the event,a driver could not be refused access to participate in an event purely on grounds of nationality(apart from where sanctions had been imposed by the FIA). I was pondering the same thing for Robert Shwarzmann-his Russian licence has been suspended so he'd be competing under an Israeli licence. Perhaps the FIA would enter him as a neutral competitor for that race.

[IceG]

Engaging rant mode:

Or perhaps, just perhaps, the FIA (and many other sports administrative bodies) could go with the spirit of the sanctions and just not allow competitors who retain their Russian/Belorussian nationalities to compete.

I understand the argument that individuals may be opposed to the Russian regime so it would be unfair of them to be disqualified but (i) the world and life are not fair, (ii) the invasion of Ukraine is vastly more important than F1 (and tennis and football, etc.), and (iii) if the competitor has dual citizenship they could rescind their Russian/Belorussian nationality.

Regardless of the indivdual's stance on Russian aggression, the Russian regime can still exploit any success internally and with allies through propaganda.

The spoiled offspring of a cleptocratic oligarch's club being unable to play with expensive toys might just have some effect on the support for the Russian regime.

It might help if a few governments (the UK especially but there are others) took a lead and did something about the plethora Russians living in and driving around Nice, Monaco, Montenegro, London, and many other expensive and desirable locations, often masquarading as Ukrainians.

I visited Ukraine in 2018 and saw the effects of the ongoing war (which started in 2014 remember) and acknowledge my bias on the subject. The effect on the lives and mental health of my friends there is significant. The cultural, agricultural and infrastructural damage is immense and in some cases permament. People are being tortured and raped and murdered because of the imperialist, expansionist and rascist philosophies of a few insane old men stuck in the Cold War era.

Rant over.

[Wallio]

Wasn't his dad like a proper oligarch? I remember claims that both Uralaki and old man Mazepin himself were the target of sanctions. If that's true, I don't see how you can claim the kid has no involvement.

[RAK]

Wasn't his dad like a proper oligarch? I remember claims that both Uralaki and old man Mazepin himself were the target of sanctions. If that's true, I don't see how you can claim the kid has no involvement.

Yes; both Nikita and his father Dmitry were placed on the EU sanctions list early in the resumption of the invasion of Ukraine.

[mario]

Wasn't his dad like a proper oligarch? I remember claims that both Uralaki and old man Mazepin himself were the target of sanctions. If that's true, I don't see how you can claim the kid has no involvement.

Yes; both Nikita and his father Dmitry were placed on the EU sanctions list early in the resumption of the invasion of Ukraine.

It should be noted that, even before the invasion of Ukraine, Dmitry was already under investigation over his activities in Belarus and his attempts to take over potash mining companies there. There has also been a case running in Ireland since 2016 over allegations of fraudulent transactions over his acquisition of TogliattiAzot, which revolves around accusations of Dmitry using his influence as a member of Putin's United Russia party to illegally gain control of that organisation.

Now, the reason why it seems that Nikita was able to win a reprieve within the EU is that he has claimed that he would be pursuing a career as a neutral athlete and without the financial support of his father - although I suspect many would wonder about the credibility of the latter claim.

However, Nikita's application to have the UK lift their sanctions against him was rejected by the courts. The Canadian government also imposed their own sanctions on Nikita, and that court case appears to still be working it's way through the Canadian legal system.

[Spectoremg]

Pointing the finger at Russia is hypocrisy in overdrive. Look at the countries on the calendar who still have the death penalty.

[RAK]

Pointing the finger at Russia is hypocrisy in overdrive. Look at the countries on the calendar who still have the death penalty.

Tu quoque doesn't help Russia's case here.

EDIT: I've had a bit of a think about this and I've concluded somewhat selfishly that banning countries with the death penalty from holding Formula One Grands Prix would, with the current calendar, be a net positive for the sport from a purely sporting perspective. There's only one track among those in countries currently practicing the death penalty which is generally considered among a broad range of fans to be a top-tier track, which is Suzuka Circuit in Japan. Banning the United States would lose Austin, which would be a pity, but it would also get rid of the execrable Miami circuit along with the "I'm not holding out hope" Las Vegas circuit. And you also lose the heap of dismal Middle Eastern tracks which gum up the sport; getting rid of Jeddah, Lusail and Yas Marina would be a blessing.

[Klon]

EDIT: I've had a bit of a think about this and I've concluded somewhat selfishly that banning countries with the death penalty from holding Formula One Grands Prix would, with the current calendar, be a net positive for the sport from a purely sporting perspective. There's only one track among those in countries currently practicing the death penalty which is generally considered among a broad range of fans to be a top-tier track, which is Suzuka Circuit in Japan. Banning the United States would lose Austin, which would be a pity, but it would also get rid of the execrable Miami circuit along with the "I'm not holding out hope" Las Vegas circuit. And you also lose the heap of dismal Middle Eastern tracks which gum up the sport; getting rid of Jeddah, Lusail and Yas Marina would be a blessing.

We would also lose Bahrain, which has gained popular support in recent years. Plus, the notion that losing Austin would be a shame is funny given as of all the tracks posted in your list, it is by far the crappiest.

Anyway, that post however very much highlights the reason why moral discussions about the countries hosting F1 among fans are a joke. F1 fans use moral values mostly as an argument against tracks they don't like. Budapest is involved in major anti-LGBT+ legislation and has indirectly supported Russian efforts, but since the Hungaroring is a classic, nobody cares. Azerbaijan is actively committing a genocide and nobody cares since the Baku circuit is the tops. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are not popular tracks, so it is very convenient that the countries they are in also countries with appaling human rights records, so we look righteous instead of just whining about a venue we do not like in a region we consider unworthy of having our glorious white motorsport.

If Sochi was considered a GOAT track, most Formula One fans would perform world championship-level mental gymnastics why racing in a country which has actively started a war of aggression is a good thing.

[RAK]

Anyway, that post however very much highlights the reason why moral discussions about the countries hosting F1 among fans are a joke. F1 fans use moral values mostly as an argument against tracks they don't like.

Fair comment. I object strongly to the political leanings of Orban's Hungary and I don't think Azerbaijan should have got a Grand Prix at any stage at all, but I can't deny that their respective tracks on the calendar are generally lauded. I suppose it's closely linked with the sportswashing we see in other sports, including the heaving heaps of money spent in football for the sake of projecting a more friendly political image.

I'll note for posterity that there are particular concerns about the Middle Eastern countries that would hypothetically concern me directly which mean I can never visit there for my own safety - in Saudi Arabia, I'm apparently a terrorist for being an atheist - so there's a lot of cognitive dissonance that goes into watching a sport which has sold its soul to those countries. As far as football goes, the team I support is in the middle of a bidding war where one of the potential buyers is a Middle Eastern country that has the death penalty for apostasy, so that may be a situation where my morals transcend my desire for entertainment.

[IceG]

Anyway, that post however very much highlights the reason why moral discussions about the countries hosting F1 among fans are a joke.

...

If Sochi was considered a GOAT track, most Formula One fans would perform world championship-level mental gymnastics why racing in a country which has actively started a war of aggression is a good thing.

Sorry I kinda kicked this strand of with my rant-post above.

But my point was not about the moral position (though that is of course paramount), it was about sanctions, the mechanisms being used to try to circumvent them, and how organisations (supra-governmental, sporting, etc.) should respond.

[mario]

Anyway, that post however very much highlights the reason why moral discussions about the countries hosting F1 among fans are a joke. F1 fans use moral values mostly as an argument against tracks they don't like.

Fair comment. I object strongly to the political leanings of Orban's Hungary and I don't think Azerbaijan should have got a Grand Prix at any stage at all, but I can't deny that their respective tracks on the calendar are generally lauded. I suppose it's closely linked with the sportswashing we see in other sports, including the heaving heaps of money spent in football for the sake of projecting a more friendly political image.

Maybe it is just me, but I have come across more mixed sentiments for those circuits that would suggest a more complex picture than the one that the two of you seem to be describing.

In the case of the Hungarian GP, is there not also the complexity that the early history of that race saw it being perceived in very much the opposite light? As the first race in the Soviet Union, the race initially developed associations of acting to create warmer relations between Eastern and Western Europe and as a sign of increasing liberalism within the Soviet Union - the historical associations and reputation of the race therefore create a tonal dissonance with more modern times.

Anyway, that post however very much highlights the reason why moral discussions about the countries hosting F1 among fans are a joke.

...

If Sochi was considered a GOAT track, most Formula One fans would perform world championship-level mental gymnastics why racing in a country which has actively started a war of aggression is a good thing.

Sorry I kinda kicked this strand of with my rant-post above.

But my point was not about the moral position (though that is of course paramount), it was about sanctions, the mechanisms being used to try to circumvent them, and how organisations (supra-governmental, sporting, etc.) should respond.

Even though the discussion has meandered beyond the original point you wanted to discuss, it has still been fairly civil in nature. As you note, outside of the more political and contentious areas, there are certainly a number of questions that can be raised about the wider complications of such moves.

That said, in a different nationalistic direction, Franck Montagny has created a bit of a stir by tearing into Alan Permane and Otmar Szafnauer with considerable venom. He's attacked them for being "useless", claimed that people "couldn't stand" Permane for constantly getting on their nerves and accused Permane of being biased against French drivers (some have translated the comments as "couldn't stand French drivers", others as a slightly milder "didn't support French drivers"). To that end, he's attacked Permane over Permane apparently having claimed that, with a better engine and better drivers, they should have had a double podium finish in Monaco, rather than just the P3 that Ocon achieved.

Indeed, in some ways his comments seem to be criticising the whole of the team at Enstone, complaining that the performance of the team has been too stagnant for too long, whilst ultimately heaping praise on Famin for sacking Permane and Szafnauer. https://www.planetf1.com/news/franck-mo ... criticism/

They are some fairly inflammatory claims, although it has been pointed out that Montagny is potentially quite a biased commentator here. Montagny has also said that he's a close friend of Bruno Famin from their time in sportscar racing - Famin ran Peugeot's technical department whilst Montagny raced for them - so it is perhaps not surprising that Montagny would be rather publicly pitching in on Famin's side.

Equally, whilst there may be some criticisms that may be levelled at the chassis development, there are those who feel that Permane might have a point about the engine division being rather lacking. Only a few weeks ago, the FIA had been reviewing a request from Renault for engine performance equalisation, with the FIA ultimately concluding that there was "a noticeable performance gap" between Renault and the rest of the field in terms of performance. https://www.racefans.net/2023/07/28/fia ... e-request/

However, in what perhaps might have been a hint of things to come, Famin had been downplaying the apparent performance deficit and seemed to be throwing more of the blame towards Enstone and accusing them of lagging behind in terms of chassis development.

Either way, it doesn't paint a particularly good picture for the prospects of the team - the management of Renault seems to be at greater odds with the team in Enstone, and Famin's behaviour seems to be exacerbating it by making it look as if one half of the company is engaging in a blame game with the other side. Equally, some have questioned if Famin is perhaps being overly optimistic in talking about wanting to win races and championships as soon as possible, even though the team hasn't really seen the same level of investment that many other teams have seen in recent years.

[IceG]

In the case of the Hungarian GP, is there not also the complexity that the early history of that race saw it being perceived in very much the opposite light? As the first race in the Soviet Union...

"Soviet bloc" or "Soviet sphere" would be more accurate - sorry to be picky.

Even though the discussion has meandered beyond the original point you wanted to discuss, it has still been fairly civil in nature.

The meandering has been very informative and the civility most welcome.

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

So here's a ponderance... With Robert Shwartzmann being reserve driver at Ferrari- supposing something happened to Leclerc or Sainz at a race weekend in say Qatar or Bahrain or Saudi Arabia,so he stepped up to take their race drive.
If he was to get the car into the top 3 what flag would they fly at the podium ceremony?

[mario]

So here's a ponderance... With Robert Shwartzmann being reserve driver at Ferrari- supposing something happened to Leclerc or Sainz at a race weekend in say Qatar or Bahrain or Saudi Arabia,so he stepped up to take their race drive.
If he was to get the car into the top 3 what flag would they fly at the podium ceremony?

I guess that the FIA could choose to show an Israeli flag, as Shwartzman has confirmed that he also holds an Israeli passport (i.e. he is a dual national).

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

That's what I thought, but I can't imagine the Saudi/Qatari/Bahraini authorities being too delighted about that...

[mario]

Speaking of replacement drivers, it has been confirmed that Ricciardo is now out of the Dutch GP after fracturing a bone in his hand in his FP2 crash, with Liam Lawson being called up as his replacement. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricc ... /10511470/

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Best wishes to Ricciardo on a speedy recovery. Given that he's almost certainly going to miss more than one race, does this put paid to his chances of grabbing the Red Bull seat? I felt like it was unlikely to begin with, but this certainly doesn't help. Could this be a decent opportunity for Lawson, or is the Alpha Tauri too slow to give him much shot of showing anything?

[Rob Dylan]

Rather unfortunate timing seeing as Daniel spoke about wanting to end his F1 career with the red bull family perhaps a little sooner than he was intending.

Because I think if Lawson performs well, they will surely just keep Lawson.

[sswishbone]

Riccardo has unfortunately ended his career today I think. He didn't blow the doors off Tsunoda and picked up an injury which realistically should have been avoidable as the yellow flags were waving one corner back.

DeVries should be feeling pretty smug here though, potential proof that Alpha Tauri are a one car team right now

[mario]

Best wishes to Ricciardo on a speedy recovery. Given that he's almost certainly going to miss more than one race, does this put paid to his chances of grabbing the Red Bull seat? I felt like it was unlikely to begin with, but this certainly doesn't help. Could this be a decent opportunity for Lawson, or is the Alpha Tauri too slow to give him much shot of showing anything?

There have not been any indications from the press briefings so far on how long he might be out for, but Monza is certainly out of the question and perobably Singapore (I doubt that it'd be a good idea to rush a driver back for a circuit that, thanks to the bumps, would likely be putting quite a lot of load back through the steering system). Suzuka might also be unlikely, so it could be that Lawson gets at least 3-4 races due to Ricciardo's injury - that said, I suspect that the car is probably not going to be competitive enough for Lawson to put in any particularly spectacular performances.

Rather unfortunate timing seeing as Daniel spoke about wanting to end his F1 career with the red bull family perhaps a little sooner than he was intending.

Because I think if Lawson performs well, they will surely just keep Lawson.

I agree that Red Bull will probably hold onto Lawson if he performs well, but I guess it still leaves the question of Perez's future at Red Bull unanswered.

The act of putting Ricciardo into De Vries's seat seems to have been a pretty clear hint to Perez that Red Bull's patience is wearing thin. Whilst Marko has said that Red Bull wants a driver in their second seat that isn't too quick and is subservient to Max, as that means there won't be problems within the team, Perez's performances are probably a bit too far off what Red Bull would like.

The current situation at Alpha Tauri doesn't really resolve that issue at Red Bull, and I don't think that Tsunoda will be seen as the answer either.

[Bleu]

So here's a ponderance... With Robert Shwartzmann being reserve driver at Ferrari- supposing something happened to Leclerc or Sainz at a race weekend in say Qatar or Bahrain or Saudi Arabia,so he stepped up to take their race drive.
If he was to get the car into the top 3 what flag would they fly at the podium ceremony?

I guess that the FIA could choose to show an Israeli flag, as Shwartzman has confirmed that he also holds an Israeli passport (i.e. he is a dual national).

There was an Israeli flag with him in FP1 results.

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

So here's a ponderance... With Robert Shwartzmann being reserve driver at Ferrari- supposing something happened to Leclerc or Sainz at a race weekend in say Qatar or Bahrain or Saudi Arabia,so he stepped up to take their race drive.
If he was to get the car into the top 3 what flag would they fly at the podium ceremony?

I guess that the FIA could choose to show an Israeli flag, as Shwartzman has confirmed that he also holds an Israeli passport (i.e. he is a dual national).

There was an Israeli flag with him in FP1 results.

Yep but that's in the Netherlands,where they have no problems flying the Israeli flag. My point was-would they do the same in the Arab states? The Saudis wouldn't be too delighted with the flag of a country they don't recognize the existence of fluttering away in TV screens around the world at their race.

[Paul Hayes]

Well, I suppose that just goes to show that no matter what you throw into a race at the moment, Max Verstappen will always come out on top.

[Spectoremg]

Can anyone with a good memory recall when Leclerc was the new big thing? It hasn't worked out has it.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Can anyone with a good memory recall when Leclerc was the new big thing? It hasn't worked out has it.

Broken floor. He’s still plenty fast

[mario]

Can anyone with a good memory recall when Leclerc was the new big thing? It hasn't worked out has it.

Broken floor. He’s still plenty fast

I think that maybe the question is asking about other areas of Leclerc's performance. It's not just purely "is Leclerc fast", but about how consistently he can maintain that performance and how well he copes with changeable conditions.

In the past, his performance in wet weather conditions was a bit inconsistent, although it does seem to be improving in response to some modifications to his driving style that he has made in the past couple of years in wet weather.

Another aspect is the question over his strategy calls - sometimes Leclerc has seemed a bit passive in the car compared to Sainz when it has come to making calls on strategy. That may, in turn, be a reflection of the criticism over Ferrari's poor strategic decision making, which is the environment that Leclerc has spent most of his career within (whereas Sainz has had experience from multiple different teams).

He might be quick, but I think that we can also ask the question of consistency and how rounded his other skills are, such as with strategy, ability to set the car up and so forth.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Can anyone with a good memory recall when Leclerc was the new big thing? It hasn't worked out has it.

Broken floor. He’s still plenty fast

I think that maybe the question is asking about other areas of Leclerc's performance. It's not just purely "is Leclerc fast", but about how consistently he can maintain that performance and how well he copes with changeable conditions.

In the past, his performance in wet weather conditions was a bit inconsistent, although it does seem to be improving in response to some modifications to his driving style that he has made in the past couple of years in wet weather.

Another aspect is the question over his strategy calls - sometimes Leclerc has seemed a bit passive in the car compared to Sainz when it has come to making calls on strategy. That may, in turn, be a reflection of the criticism over Ferrari's poor strategic decision making, which is the environment that Leclerc has spent most of his career within (whereas Sainz has had experience from multiple different teams).

He might be quick, but I think that we can also ask the question of consistency and how rounded his other skills are, such as with strategy, ability to set the car up and so forth.

That's fair enough Mario. Leclerc definitely makes more mistakes than I'd like to see at this point. He also doesn't have the strategic nous of his teammate or some others on the grid. That said, I don't think he's any more or less strategically minded than Max (obviously I could be wrong). If he was in the Red Bull instead of Max, I'm quite certain he'd be running away with the championship. If he was in the Red Bull along side Max, I think he'd be making it a much closer contest than Sergio is.

If I had a team with one open seat, who would I take right now from the current grid? In order: Max, Lewis, Tie(Norris/Leclerc), Alonso, Sainz, Russell. If it's a two-year or more contract, probably drop Alonso. I could understand moving him (Leclerc) a couple spots one way or the other depending on your opinion, but in any event, he's in the top echelon of the sport. Who would you have?

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

I was a bit surprised than when the rain started coming down on the formation lap that no-one dived in the pits a la Winkelhock to slam on some inters or rain tyres. Would've thought at least one team would go for it rather than waiting until after the start to change