F1 To Be Split Between BBC 1 and Sky Sports from 2012

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 30 Jul 2011, 17:51

DonTirri wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:Really. Why do you bitch and moan about this HERE?

Did you even SEE the title of this thread? If you don't like the subject, stay out of the thread.

TomPryce · Post by **TomPryce** » 30 Jul 2011, 18:41

Oh dear. I know that there would be arguments regardless who made the topic, but I still feel partly responsible for the ensuing flame war for creating it. The subject sure is controversial here, so if anyone reading it thinks we are silly... well, we do have irrational feelings. I don't think this IS irrational thought, really, in light of recent media events.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 30 Jul 2011, 20:38

I don't think this is a flame war. Everything is on-topic, it hasn't devolved into pure name-calling etc. FWIW I'm in the US and SPEED is part of the cable package that I have. I'm positively addicted to HD picture. FOM should have done this years ago.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 30 Jul 2011, 20:54

The subscription to Sky is going to cost 60 Euro per month? Holy crap. I didn't realize it was going to be that much more expensive for you all. I understand the complaints here. (Still, however, this is how the world of business works, like it or not.)

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 31 Jul 2011, 00:48

That means... A year of coverage of F1 in England is the same that I earn each month... Well,

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 31 Jul 2011, 05:42

THIS IS THE BEST THREAD ON F1 REJECTS RIGHT NOW.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 31 Jul 2011, 08:38

thehemogoblin wrote:The subscription to Sky is going to cost 60 Euro per month? Holy crap. I didn't realize it was going to be that much more expensive for you all. I understand the complaints here. (Still, however, this is how the world of business works, like it or not.)

That's my best estimate I can get using the Sky website, for equivalent coverage to what we currently get (i.e. all the sessions in HD). It also comes with several other channels showing lots of other sport (mainly football), but I doubt that would interest most of the people complaining about it.

On the other hand, thanks to the EU's free internal market, it might be legal for us to buy our F1 coverage in from elsewhere (using a set top box from Finland, say) at a lower rate than Sky are charging. That would really put Murdoch's nose out of joint.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 31 Jul 2011, 10:02

This may detour from the rage that has built up in this thread.

Did anyone hear the rumour that was mentioned in the run up to this years Canadian GP and Le Mans 24 Hours...

"Martin Brundle to commentate on Canadian GP from France"

...Could this deal have been made sooner than everyone thinks? I immediately assumed that Canada would be a round on the chopping board due to its infamous upsetting of all those boring and old fans of the Antiques Roadshow. Now Brundle has the perfect oppertunity to take part in the 2012 running of the Grand Prix of Endurance.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 31 Jul 2011, 11:17

BBC just acknowledged the complaints on the broadcast, jake stating that the three of them were touched that the coverage was held in such high regard but that the climate means they have to accept it. I'll be pirating a feed from somewhere, no way I am paying Sky

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 31 Jul 2011, 11:24

sswishbone wrote:BBC just acknowledged the complaints on the broadcast, jake stating that the three of them were touched that the coverage was held in such high regard but that the climate means they have to accept it. I'll be pirating a feed from somewhere, no way I am paying Sky

I was impressed with that, really genuine.

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 31 Jul 2011, 11:24

In New Zealand its been on sky sports since 2005 so its not just the UK thats been affected. It was bound to happen just a question of when.

The Mountain Man · Post by **The Mountain Man** » 31 Jul 2011, 12:15

A few quick considerations.

First thing is, of course, the absolutely awful timing of this announcement. With the NotW scandal so fresh in the public mind it was obvious a deal involving a hugely popular sport like F1 and News Media was going to generate a ton of controversy. I take it was either planned well before the NotW scandal broke out or the decision was rushed (more on that later). Either way it's bad PR for all parts involved.

Second thing. I suspect the BBC is presently in the dreaded "We need to cut costs damn right now" phase. This is one of the most dreaded phrases of them all, not just because people fear for their jobs but also because it breeds inept and damaging business decisions. When the upper management is frantic to see cuts there's no time to run careful analysis or even to do a decent assessment of the pro and con. You just need to cut: you will regret the bad decisions later. BBC is currently slashing its sports right budget as much as it can. F1 is not the only sports affected. The 2012 Olympics rights will cost 60 millions. But the International Olympics Committee (IOC) fears BBC will slash the budget for both the 2014 Winter Olympics and the 2016 Summer Olympics, leading to a major cash (and PR) crisis. The IOC thought they could make more money by stop dealing with the EBU as a whole (a consortium of 75 European TV stations, including ITV, the BBC and Channel 4) and dealing with individual broadcasters. They lost major money over Vancouver and risk losing even more over London since Pay TV broadcasters (the ones they hoped would fork out major money for such exciting sports as curling) just weren't interested in the deal or offered much less money than expected. Closer at home the budget cut is also affecting football: after negotiations for Football League and Carling CUP rights fell through the lower three divisions clubs were left with a 20+ millions/year hole in their budgets.

Third thing. If they are really going to force people to buy a large "package" of channels at an enormous price (£50-60 a month ain't exactly cheap) it could end up actually losing viewers. I hope the people at Sky will for once stop trying to ram football down everybody's throat (mostly because football rights are so ridiculously expensive) and offer a smaller, cheaper package aimed at motorsports enthusiasts. Ain't going to happen, but would be sensible business. In many countries Sky has more or less reached a "critical mass" because they stubbornly insists upon forcing large, expensive packages including football (the main reason those packages are so expensive in the first place) upon a public which either cannot afford the cost is or isn't interested in paying major money to see football.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 31 Jul 2011, 14:43

On F1 forum a yelled into the mic 'we don't want it on sky!' and the guys bolted quickly without comment, says it all, they've been gagged

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 31 Jul 2011, 14:47

sswishbone wrote:On F1 forum a yelled into the mic 'we don't want it on sky!' and the guys bolted quickly without comment, says it all, they've been gagged

If you allow me to be cynical for a second, how would it help if they where to whine for the rest of the season? I'll tell you - not at all! It's not going to change, so you might as well focus on the sport.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 31 Jul 2011, 15:40

Thought I'd wait a couple of days before properly commenting since I didn't want a kneejerk reaction to it but I think once I hear more details about what gets transmitted when and where I'll try and weigh up if the whole F1 Sky deal plus other stuff I want it for (ie golf, cricket, other stuff), or whether I'll make do with what's on BBC.

I think I could live with delayed long highlights after the races, especially for the early-morning starts like Australia and the Asian races, since I usually watched the lunchtime re-run anyway. If it's only half an hour or so like they showed in the 80s then I'd need more than that.

What is frustrating for me is this "half-and-half" thing, I understand why it's done but it would have been a much more clear-cut decision if the whole thing had been going over to Sky instead of teasing us with some of the races on BBC, and also I didn't think anything like this was going to happen for another couple of seasons yet.

But then I also think maybe we've been spoiled recently anyway, having heard what coverage some people get in other countries, and of course when I started watching on BBC in the early 90s we only ever saw highlights of races like Brazil and Mexico for example. And I'd even prefer to pay to see uninterrupted coverage of races, than getting it free with advert breaks thinking back to the ITV days!

So I'm fence-sitting for now basically.

Post by **tommykl** » 31 Jul 2011, 16:20

Just to talk about the coverage I get in French-speaking Belgium. I can still watch the BBC adnd TF1, but on the Belgian network, the races are broadcast on the RTBF, the Wallonian equivalent to the BBC. To have TV, we also have to pay a license fee, although I don't know how much it costs. Anyway, the races are on free-to-air TV, we get qualifying and the race with a 15-30 minute build-up, but no post-race coverage. We also don't have access to free practice sessions, but that's not really a problem.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 02 Aug 2011, 12:34

DonTirri wrote:Okay Kostas, you act as if UK is the only country where A) F1 has been on freeview for a LONG time and B) Where you need to pay a license fee.

First off, Finland has the same system, we have to pay a license-fee every month (or every 3 months/yearly depending on your payment plan) to Yleisradio, even if we never watch the channel (For the record, the highest rated show in the main channel Ylen Ykkönen is the 9'o clock news. And not even that can touch the viewer figures of MTV3.). F1 was on freeview TV at MTV3 ATLEAST from 94 (Thats' when I began following not sure about who aired the races before that) till 2007. That's when it moved to MTV3 MAX that's a subsciption-based paychannel. Did we bitch and moan and complain to the degree you have already done? No. Why? Because for a true fan it is irrelevant WHO airs the races as long as someone does and for a true fan it doesn't matter whether he needs to pay or not. Hell, I got the subscription to the channel for the F1-races ALONE.

You're just spoiled.

Now I don't know about Murdoch's issues (It doesn't get ANY airtime in Finland, and for a good reason) but strictly from an F1-fans perspective... what does it matter?

That was a very naive and uninformed answer. And also you've clearly paid attention to nothing I've said up until now, only noticing the red mist descending as it usually does for the forum troll.

MTV3 > MTV3 MAX would be the same as the BBC1 > BBC Sport option I suggested (which unfortunately does not exist). You're trying to compare apples and oranges, but as you don't really understand the issues you're just assuming they're both apples.

So, once again, I will repeat my stance on the matter. I am a bit annoyed but not angered at F1 coverage going the way of Pay TV (who wouldn't be?). What angers me is that of every channel it could have gone to, Bernie sold the rights to the most expensive channel in the UK, which also aims to achieve a monopoly of British sports. If I have to pay ESPN £10 a month for F1, I'm fine with that, it would have been a sensible decision as they broadcast over Freeview (as I've already said before, if you'd been paying any attention). Plus I don't give a toss about adverts, I watched F1 for a decade with them, to me a channel with no adverts is a perk and not a right.

Marcus Brigstocke once said people mistook the BBC for a taxi when in fact it is a bus - and he has a point. Our license fee is supposed to be what the majority in general wants, not exactly what one passenger wants. However, the BBC is slowly but surely losing all sports it broadcasts - Sky has been plucking them off one by one by pricing them out. While not every person on earth likes sport, the vast majority of the British population at least like some sport(s), so what would the point of having a bus that doesn't stop anywhere near where any of the passengers want to go? If we assume half of the population are license payers (OAPs are exempt I believe, and obviously young people won't pay either), then 17% of the population of the UK watch F1. And this is just based on the figures for a single race, not over an entire season, where the figure would likely be higher due to occasional viewers at other races. If the statistics show the public want it, and the BBC's constitutional purpose is to broadcast content which is in the interest of the general public, they've ignored their own purpose for existence.

And another thing that has been bugging me from foreign whiners, why doesn't the UK have the right to have good F1 coverage? If we remove the UK's contribution to F1 from the grid right now, there wouldn't be enough cars to start the race, or staff to run any of the teams, or marshals to run most of the far flung races. You take away easy-to-access coverage, far less people watch it, far less people are interested, so far less people want to join the motorsport industry, so the UK loses its hold on the motorsport industry as foreign markets pick up the resulting ever growing skills gap - an industry which is worth $6 billion to our economy.

This may seem like a tiny, insignificant decision to you, but it could have wide repercussions for others. To Sky, the F1 rights are just a pawn in its game of chess against the rest of the world media.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 02 Aug 2011, 12:37

Murray Walker speaks on the UK TV rights debacle

Discuss.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 02 Aug 2011, 12:49

"Writing in the Daily Mail newspaper"
Well I'm sure as hell dissapointed in Murray

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 02 Aug 2011, 19:25

Do you have the opinion that Murray WENT to the Daily Mail to speak of this?

I'm thinking the Daily Mail asked Murray to say something...

Oh, and look what I said.....ages ago: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1270&start=0

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 02 Aug 2011, 22:03

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... actor.html

This is your TV License fee hard at work, to copy ITV.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Aug 2011, 23:17

ADx_Wales wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2004929/The-Voice-confirmed-air-BBC-One-X-Factor.html

This is your TV License fee hard at work, to copy ITV.

They spent £22 million setting up yet another dreary talent show, are seriously thinking of spending £8 million+ on yet another presenter (a subpar one at that), but they can't be arsed to support a proven BAFTA-award winning program? Who's in charge over there, Andrea Sassetti?

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 03 Aug 2011, 13:29

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2004929/The-Voice-confirmed-air-BBC-One-X-Factor.html

This is your TV License fee hard at work, to copy ITV.

They spent £22 million setting up yet another dreary talent show, are seriously thinking of spending £8 million+ on yet another presenter (a subpar one at that), but they can't be arsed to support a proven BAFTA-award winning program? Who's in charge over there, Andrea Sassetti?

Pathetic isn't it? Unfortunately the 'light entertainment' (i.e. idiotic talent shows) budget is separate from the sport budget and apparently one of the excuses is that they spent all of their money on the rights to the Olympics.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 03 Aug 2011, 14:53

Well, in Norway, NRK (the Norwegian public broadcaster). Sold the rights to the World Champ in Football (My american friends, that means foot + ball), because they had to finance Eurovision Song Contest... And, then demanded higher license fee, to be able to finance Eurovision. Even thought the majority would rather watch Brazil play football, than some strange guy from Serbia sing.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 03 Aug 2011, 19:43

I actually enjoy Eurovision, but not THAT much!

I'm really disappointed that the Beeb are spending money on more talent show drivel and I hope they don't pay that stupid fee for Paul O'Grady - I used to like him but whenever I tune in these days he's spouting loony left-wing drivel non-stop. Mind you, actually that'd make him a perfect fit for the Beeb....

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 08 Aug 2011, 06:45

Quoted for truth:

ADx_Wales wrote:People may argue, but its all opinion, Murray Walker may be the best TV commentator the English based audience can understand, but according to some, he has been VERY hard to replace, so it got me thinking...

...whats the WORST people that can present TV coverage to an understanding audience, obvioulsy people can throw their fingers at ITV, but INDIVIDUALLY, from the guy you end up having to look at as soon as the godawful intro that has music that isnt as good as "The Chain", right the way through the race shouting at the commentator for either not noticing, or getting the drivers name wrong, the pundit who isnt exactly audiogenic, or TOO audiogenic, even too high pitched JACKIE STEWART!!! This thread can also apply to the total dullards who end up fronting other forms of racing that have been splurted shamelessly upon sky's digital service, A1 GP, NASCAR etc...

I'm gonna get the wagon rolling with:

Worst TV Channel F1 could be on: Sky Sports

I'm not referring to "BernieVision" or F1 Digital + , I'm referring to the (lack of) complete interest of Sky Sports motorsport arm, which includes former ITV man Andrew Marriott, who is an Executive of this arm, or should I say "little finger".

While their football coverage may be Immaculate to some, it seems they dont seem to give a toss about ANY of the motorsport they cover when they get live rights, but when they show it they seem to claim it as if its theirs outright, for instance when A1 was shown, even from the very beginning Georgie Thompson would say "and now over to our live commentators John Watson and Ben Edwards", the sound engineer would wait for a gap in the "world feed" commentary that JW and BE were providing, to make it look like they were Sky's commentary team. It's also worth mentioning that on the inaugural race day at brands hatch, Sky turned up with two more pit reporters, alongside the A1 employed Lee (yum yum ) McKenzie and Gareth "Gaz Top" Jones, but thats something worth mentioning later...

I'm sure that this was the same "and now to our commentary team..." ethic applied when NASCAR coverage was Sky's to "treasure".

And yes, my 200th post...

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 08 Aug 2011, 15:40

So it turns out I may be able to watch every race on Setanta Ireland...

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 09 Aug 2011, 17:16

shinji wrote:So it turns out I may be able to watch every race on Setanta Ireland...

Is that a good thing? I've not forgotten what happened to GP2 coverage when it was forced off ITV4 at the end of 2008 - I still had a Virgin Media package that could pick up Setanta Sports, but once I'd discovered that they'd picked up GP2 (after a lot of searching) I found their coverage to be horribly lacking - especially the way it covered only the race and nothing else. "And round the final corner, over the line, and Rrrrrmmmmnnn Grrrrrjjjjjnnn has won the race!" *ABRUPT CUT* Then, of course, Setanta in the UK went bang and GP2 was lost to us completely.

So, have Setanta got a better reputation in Ireland, and are they likely to do a better job than those few examples of GP2 coverage on this side of the Irish Sea?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 09 Aug 2011, 18:19

dinizintheoven wrote:
shinji wrote:So it turns out I may be able to watch every race on Setanta Ireland...

Is that a good thing? I've not forgotten what happened to GP2 coverage when it was forced off ITV4 at the end of 2008 - I still had a Virgin Media package that could pick up Setanta Sports, but once I'd discovered that they'd picked up GP2 (after a lot of searching) I found their coverage to be horribly lacking - especially the way it covered only the race and nothing else. "And round the final corner, over the line, and Rrrrrmmmmnnn Grrrrrjjjjjnnn has won the race!" *ABRUPT CUT* Then, of course, Setanta in the UK went bang and GP2 was lost to us completely.

So, have Setanta got a better reputation in Ireland, and are they likely to do a better job than those few examples of GP2 coverage on this side of the Irish Sea?

Well this year they have the BBC coverage with ads, so I presume next year they'll have something similar.

When they had their own commentary it was alright, the main man had an irritating voice, but the analysts were David Kennedy and Gary Anderson. Now the channel has pretty much gone caput - Setanta Ireland has endless Top Gear repeats and school's rugby, but that's kind of irrelevant to their F1 coverage, which hopefully should continue as it is. It's free on my UPC bundle.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Aug 2011, 23:01

So, there's an e-petition here trying to keep F1 on the BBC. Now, I don't normally pay attention to these things, but it's on an official British government website, so there's a slim chance it might be debated in the House of Commons if it gets to 100,000 votes. Still, slim is better than none, and it's already got 14,600 odd votes, making it currently the 4th-most popular cause on the website.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 09 Aug 2011, 23:03

How many e-petitions are there though?

I'm sure theres something bigger to stamp out as we speak.

Wonder if the Cinemas are still going to show races...may be cheaper to watch 10 races in the cinema...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Aug 2011, 23:28

Wait, they show races at the cinema?

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 10 Aug 2011, 08:21

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:So, there's an e-petition here trying to keep F1 on the BBC. Now, I don't normally pay attention to these things, but it's on an official British government website, so there's a slim chance it might be debated in the House of Commons if it gets to 100,000 votes. Still, slim is better than none, and it's already got 14,600 odd votes, making it currently the 4th-most popular cause on the website.

The decision will not be reversed and all the petitions will be pointless. Even in the remote possibility that it does get debated in the House of Commons, it'll be at a time when there are 4 MPs there, like straight after lunch, and nothing will come of it.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 10 Aug 2011, 08:26

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Wait, they show races at the cinema?

In 2008 Odeon showed a couple of races at the end of season live in selected cinemas in HD, as a test to see if audiences were receptive and whether there was a market for it. As far as I know Odeon didn't carry on doing it.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Aug 2011, 10:01

Faustus wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:So, there's an e-petition here trying to keep F1 on the BBC. Now, I don't normally pay attention to these things, but it's on an official British government website, so there's a slim chance it might be debated in the House of Commons if it gets to 100,000 votes. Still, slim is better than none, and it's already got 14,600 odd votes, making it currently the 4th-most popular cause on the website.

The decision will not be reversed and all the petitions will be pointless. Even in the remote possibility that it does get debated in the House of Commons, it'll be at a time when there are 4 MPs there, like straight after lunch, and nothing will come of it.

Still, it's not like it takes anything more than a few seconds to vote for it, so why not?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 11 Aug 2011, 20:39

Faustus wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Wait, they show races at the cinema?

In 2008 Odeon showed a couple of races at the end of season live in selected cinemas in HD, as a test to see if audiences were receptive and whether there was a market for it. As far as I know Odeon didn't carry on doing it.

I remember watching the 2008 British Grand Prix at Vue Cinema in Leeds. The only problem was, instead of James Allen (just wait...) and Martin Brundle, I was horrified to discover the lead commentator was actually...

Jonathan Palmer

:shock:

If Cineworld in Glasgow decided to show all the races and it was included in their 'Season Ticket' I'd definitely go watch the races at the cinema. But I very very much doubt that will happen...just as long as we don't have to listen to Jonathan bloody Palmer again.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 11 Aug 2011, 20:56

Jonathan Palmer or Rupert Murdoch.....lesser of two evils Aly.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 13 Aug 2011, 08:28

kostas22 wrote:
I remember watching the 2008 British Grand Prix at Vue Cinema in Leeds.

You know Leeds is in England right? What were you? Some sort of reconnaissance mission?

MinardiFan95 · Post by **MinardiFan95** » 15 Aug 2011, 07:39

ADx_Wales wrote:...but when they show it they seem to claim it as if its theirs outright, for instance when A1 was shown, even from the very beginning Georgie Thompson would say "and now over to our live commentators John Watson and Ben Edwards", the sound engineer would wait for a gap in the "world feed" commentary that JW and BE were providing, to make it look like they were Sky's commentary team. It's also worth mentioning that on the inaugural race day at brands hatch, Sky turned up with two more pit reporters, alongside the A1 employed Lee (yum yum ) McKenzie and Gareth "Gaz Top" Jones, but thats something worth mentioning later...

I'm sure that this was the same "and now to our commentary team..." ethic applied when NASCAR coverage was Sky's to "treasure".

Hmm, sounds a lot like a certain commentary team over here in Australia...

They even have their two additional pit reporters as well, Tom Clarkson and James bathplugging Allen.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 15 Aug 2011, 08:34

MinardiFan95 wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:...but when they show it they seem to claim it as if its theirs outright, for instance when A1 was shown, even from the very beginning Georgie Thompson would say "and now over to our live commentators John Watson and Ben Edwards", the sound engineer would wait for a gap in the "world feed" commentary that JW and BE were providing, to make it look like they were Sky's commentary team. It's also worth mentioning that on the inaugural race day at brands hatch, Sky turned up with two more pit reporters, alongside the A1 employed Lee (yum yum ) McKenzie and Gareth "Gaz Top" Jones, but thats something worth mentioning later...

I'm sure that this was the same "and now to our commentary team..." ethic applied when NASCAR coverage was Sky's to "treasure".

Hmm, sounds a lot like a certain commentary team over here in Australia...

They even have their two additional pit reporters as well, Tom Clarkson and James bathplugging Allen.

See, Channel 7 should do the F1 coverage instead of 10, and use the V8 commentators. They'd know sod all about what was going on, but Skaife and Larkham at least make it worth listening to them.