Toyota withdraws from F1

Winterspring · Post by **Winterspring** » 04 Nov 2009, 11:28

The question is how are they going to avoid legal action.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Nov 2009, 11:39

Captain Hammer wrote:
kostas22 wrote:It is with great sadness I announce that Toyota is withdrawing from F1 for 2010.

I'm sorry, kostas, but you're misreporting.

ORLY?

kowalski · Post by **kowalski** » 04 Nov 2009, 11:41

kostas22 wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
kostas22 wrote:It is with great sadness I announce that Toyota is withdrawing from F1 for 2010.

I'm sorry, kostas, but you're misreporting.

ORLY?

Yer, another fine, somewhat arrogant post from mr. hammer....

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 04 Nov 2009, 11:49

Just as I was about to switch my favoritism from Sauber towards the local team (I live in Cologne) because of Kobayashi-san's stunning performances, this happens.
To be honest, I don't understand the decisions of these global corporations. I mean they don't exist just to burn money, do they?
Team Toyota looked like they have become well-structured enough at this point to finally win something next year. But they have probably burnt too much money in previous seasons to further justify the operation. It was always going to be a steep uphill struggle, considering that the team switched from the World Rallye Championship straight into Formula 1 - something which has probably never happened before. (Well, ProDrive tried, but they came after Toyota).
We will see what happens with the team and I feel sorry for the locals. But the decision surely will be beneficial to the road car business.

Still, I hope that the Sauber successor now gets its entry to get things going. And maybe next year's Toyota car can be bought by one of the new teams who needs it?

Since Cologne is about as far off the F1 map, finding a buyer is probably similarly difficult for this team than it was for the Hinwil squad. But at least, the people at Hinwil got a Ferrari engine deal already in place.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 04 Nov 2009, 11:53

This story just shows the news gap for me. Went to sleep after hearing a rumor that Toyota were to withdraw. Wake up, and it's fact. Still a shock though. I suppose Qadbak are going to be let in,right? Does anyone know of they're is a prospective buyer?

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 04 Nov 2009, 12:26

Ha! After so many hype denouncements that they would remain dedicated to F1, this was the only logical thing to happen...

This means it's time for Renault to bite the dust too...

Python · Post by **Python** » 04 Nov 2009, 12:41

I was sad to read that Toyota is withdrawing from F1. Toyota was one of my favorite teams even though they didn't win a race. I told my dad on Monday about Kobayashi's driving style and said that "This guy is going to win in F1 someday" but now it looks like his career will be cut short.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 04 Nov 2009, 13:03

Tealy wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:
Tealy wrote:
I don't see Toyota selling to a guy who built a Honda B team but it would be great. Maybe we could even see Super Ukyo on the grid next season, Cowboyashi would definetly get a drive then.

It couldn't be Super Ukyo, because that would leave Ukyo Katayama at the same level as Aguri Suzuki. The team would have to be Uber Ukyo, to sufficiently one-up Suzuki.

Uber Ukyo would be awesome. I will not be satisfied until that team exists.

screw Uber Ukyo. Too German Sounding. They should go with a very Japanese name. Dai UKyo (Great Ukyo) or Mugen-Ukyo (Infinite Ukyo)... or Even UkyOh GP (Oh means King in japanese)

Post by **mario** » 04 Nov 2009, 13:44

There is one thing that I would like to have cleared up - since Toyota signed the new agreement with FOM to commit to the sport until 2012, what will the repercussions be for breach of contract? I assume that they will be stripped of their prize money - and what will happen to that prize money is also another matter. Will it stay with FOM, be redistributed to the other existing teams - or perhaps a downpayment for the new teams to prevent them collapsing halfway through the season?
However, could this give the Qadbak-Sauber entry an easier route for next year, by taking over their entry instead of having to run as a new entrant - if that is possible, of course.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 04 Nov 2009, 13:48

Captain Hammer wrote:
shinji wrote:Sometimes pictures speak louder than words.

Wait a second: we routinely lambast Toyota for being a bloated, overly-ambitious, underachieving, self-important and generally-incompetent group of self-aggrandising and over-rated morons who saw Formula One as a marketing opportunity and whose tenure in the sport has variously involved hiring the likes of Cristiano da Matta, Allan McNish, Ralf Schumacher and Jarno Trulli, spending four hundred million dollars on their team in a single year with the end result being a single point and then proving to be their own worst enemies by dropping the ball as soon as things start looking good for them. They're not even a proper Reject team since they've long since overcome the basic qualification criteria, yet here we are, mourning their loss.

Mourning their loss? No. I was showing how their lack of creativity and deviation from an original design (both on the technical design and the livery) displayed what a dull and unexciting team Toyota were. The astounding thing is, they were from the same country that produced Taku, Inoue, Cowboy, Suzuki, Kuwashima, Noda and Nakano, as well as the Super Aguri team. Clearly they were more German than Japanese.

But for the interest that the Cowboy has provided in the last couple of races and the fact I'd like that to continue, I'm not sad at all. Frees up a spot for Qadbak. Now we only need Renault to feck off and Stefan GP will be in

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 Nov 2009, 14:27

Well, what can I say after so many comments? It won't be missed, the only downfall is Kobayashi is now without a drive.

I think Renault should consider withdrawing after this and their poor results; and I think Kubica will go off with more dignity not driving the next season than driving for Renault.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 04 Nov 2009, 14:32

Too bad they got out just when they found Kobayashi. If they had left during the Trulli/Ralf days, I would have laughed. Overall, a team that won't be missed.

There's room for Sauber now, right?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 Nov 2009, 15:05

Phoenix wrote:I think Renault should consider withdrawing after this and their poor results; and I think Kubica will go off with more dignity not driving the next season than driving for Renault.

Isn't that overly negative? Renault, more than Toyota, isn't just some sort of corporate outfit. It is the former Benetton, former Toleman. If everyone just packs up and goes home, we'll be left wondering what the heck happened. I still believe Manor, Lotus, Campos and US-F1 are shaky, to say the least.

We are effectively seeing the end of an era in F1. F1, as we've known for a decade or so, is being transformed. Honda, BMW and Toyota are gone. Tyre manufacturers are jumping in front of each other not to be a part of it. There's the persisting rumour that McLaren and Mercedes are getting divorced. What will be the result of all those things?

You may say that the current problems with F1 mean things will move from the slightly boring stuff we've endured for a while, and into a new era of competitiveness, openness and generally better entertainment. Could be. Right now, with everyone on the run, I can't see it happen, and don't like the idea that a group of buggers in Bavaria, Tokyo and Paris can simply annihilate my sport.

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 04 Nov 2009, 16:15

For the autosport subscribers, a good piece on Toyota back from 2002:

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2475

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 04 Nov 2009, 17:34

This is how Toyota ends. Not with a bang, but with a shrug of indiffrence. What a huge waste of goddamn time they've been.

And all this wailing and gnashing of teeth as to the fate of our beloved Kobayashi, let's look on the bright side. We're one step closer to the dream line up of Kobayashi and Takuuuu! After all Sato had no chance of joining him at Toyota (lacking the grossly inflated wage that Toyota apprently mistakes for talent).

hclw · Post by **hclw** » 04 Nov 2009, 18:15

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Nov 2009, 18:48

Last I heard is Toyota will be entering Kamui in a Lexus for the Super GT championship if he doesn't get an F1 seat. Just a rumour, but if he can't make F1, I'd still rather he races somewhere than wrapping fish in a sushi bar...heck, I'd like to see him in the BTCC! He is one feisty racer, and who knows, maybe someday he could make Matt Neal quivver in fear

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:14

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Phoenix wrote:I think Renault should consider withdrawing after this and their poor results; and I think Kubica will go off with more dignity not driving the next season than driving for Renault.

Isn't that overly negative? Renault, more than Toyota, isn't just some sort of corporate outfit. It is the former Benetton, former Toleman. If everyone just packs up and goes home, we'll be left wondering what the heck happened. I still believe Manor, Lotus, Campos and US-F1 are shaky, to say the least.

We are effectively seeing the end of an era in F1. F1, as we've known for a decade or so, is being transformed. Honda, BMW and Toyota are gone. Tyre manufacturers are jumping in front of each other not to be a part of it. There's the persisting rumour that McLaren and Mercedes are getting divorced. What will be the result of all those things?

You may say that the current problems with F1 mean things will move from the slightly boring stuff we've endured for a while, and into a new era of competitiveness, openness and generally better entertainment. Could be. Right now, with everyone on the run, I can't see it happen, and don't like the idea that a group of buggers in Bavaria, Tokyo and Paris can simply annihilate my sport.

OK, I can see your point of view. Perhaps I was too negative indeed but, in truth, the mother house could be thinking about retirement now. After all, they have a lot of negative things to climb over for a team that said it was going to retire if they didn't win: Crashgate, Alsonso's departure and the losing of sponsors, mainly. Toyota had some patience, but in the end they did it. And, certainly, I won't expect an sterling 2010 for Kubica. And yes, I'm willing to see if all the new teams will stand the full season, let alone make it into the next.
Still, as an F1 fan who has seen too many political brain-farts and some boring races, I like to see this so-called "new era of F1" with optimism, I like to think things will be more exciting, even if then they aren't.
But perhaps not all the fault is from all those manufacturers: well, they somewhat contributed to the raising of the costs, but they did F1 cars; then I think the drivers should be a bit more competitive. However, it's not about driving only with guts, but it's about giving a bit more of spectacle and fight more. And, of course, we should get rid of those dull "Tilkodromes": I think with the safety standarsds of today a race at the old Nürburgring could be raced feasibly.

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:21

the Article on SpeedTV all but squashed rumors of a Potential Buyer for the team...Because the Teams Facilities in Cologne are a small part of a Much Larger Toyota Facility......Selling the Team becomes a Hard deal.......

Not sure how to feel......I am glad that Peter Sauber looks to be back on the Grid though......

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:24

Phoenix wrote:But perhaps not all the fault is from all those manufacturers: well, they somewhat contributed to the raising of the costs, but they did F1 cars; then I think the drivers should be a bit more competitive. However, it's not about driving only with guts, but it's about giving a bit more of spectacle and fight more. And, of course, we should get rid of those dull "Tilkodromes": I think with the safety standarsds of today a race at the old Nürburgring could be raced feasibly.

... until something horrible happens and a driver dies.

I agree with way you said in general, but I need to pounce on this Tlkodrome thing that seems to be on everyone's mind. Need I remind everyone that all of F1's recent serious accidents, with consequences to the drivers, were in the non-Tilkodromes? Kubica in Canada, Glock in Suzuka... modern day F1 needs Tilke-standard tracks, or it'll all go horribly wrong. Part of the enduring era of safety F1 is enjoying is due to the tracks, not just the cars.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:29

Perhaps, but I live assuming that if Kubica wasn't killed in Canada 2007, then it'll be difficult for another driver to die, fortunately. I just see the cars of today way safe...perhaps a quarter of a decade without deaths in F1 has made a too-confident feeling into me...

I agree Tilke's circuits are very safe, but, would it be posssible to build fun Tilkodromes? Honestly, I had great expectations for the Valencia track first and then for Abu Dhabi, but they were just average races...Or is it a problem concerning F1 races as a whole?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:31

Phoenix, it's the cars. They need to be forced to not create as much dirty air as they currently do. The double-diffusers need to go away.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:36

thehemogoblin wrote:Phoenix, it's the cars. They need to be forced to not create as much dirty air as they currently do. The double-diffusers need to go away.

Just what was suspecting, because the GP2 races in the same circuits were far more fun. If ground effects weren't dangerous, I'd propose the return of some of the early 80s design traits...I found those cars lovely to see.
Apart from the double diffusers, they should also remove the wheel caps (or whatever they're called, I'm not english and I'm doubting

), I think they also contribute to create dirty air.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:37

thehemogoblin wrote:Phoenix, it's the cars. They need to be forced to not create as much dirty air as they currently do. The double-diffusers need to go away.

Yeah, it seems so. Turkey, for instance, produces great GP2 races. Abu Dhabi isn't all that bad as well, and we've seen some overtaking. Maybe the ban on refuelling will increase the drivers' incentives to go for it. No more Vettel hanging around, waiting for the refuelling.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:42

CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Phoenix, it's the cars. They need to be forced to not create as much dirty air as they currently do. The double-diffusers need to go away.

Yeah, it seems so. Turkey, for instance, produces great GP2 races. Abu Dhabi isn't all that bad as well, and we've seen some overtaking. Maybe the ban on refuelling will increase the drivers' incentives to go for it. No more Vettel hanging around, waiting for the refuelling.

I think that there will be much more on-track action next year because the drivers will have to go for it.

I also think that there will be significantly more incidents because of people not being able to handle such heavy cars and from people getting far more desperate when in slower traffic.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 04 Nov 2009, 19:55

Honestly, there's more passing at lower levels because the drivers aren't as good and so are more likely to make mistakes, which results in openings for passing moves. Formula One drivers tend to be much higher quality and less prone to mistakes and so "generate" less passing chances.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 04 Nov 2009, 22:56

CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Phoenix, it's the cars. They need to be forced to not create as much dirty air as they currently do. The double-diffusers need to go away.

Yeah, it seems so. Turkey, for instance, produces great GP2 races. Abu Dhabi isn't all that bad as well, and we've seen some overtaking. Maybe the ban on refuelling will increase the drivers' incentives to go for it. No more Vettel hanging around, waiting for the refuelling.

I'm worried about next year - with no fuel weights to play with in qualifying the fastest cars will always be at the front and probably drive away from the rest. Overtaking may increase a bit with heavier cars meaning longer breaking zones and the prospect of tyre management bringing in a performance differential, however I think the racing will suffer.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 05 Nov 2009, 00:34

noisebox wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:Phoenix, it's the cars. They need to be forced to not create as much dirty air as they currently do. The double-diffusers need to go away.

Yeah, it seems so. Turkey, for instance, produces great GP2 races. Abu Dhabi isn't all that bad as well, and we've seen some overtaking. Maybe the ban on refuelling will increase the drivers' incentives to go for it. No more Vettel hanging around, waiting for the refuelling.

I'm worried about next year - with no fuel weights to play with in qualifying the fastest cars will always be at the front and probably drive away from the rest. Overtaking may increase a bit with heavier cars meaning longer breaking zones and the prospect of tyre management bringing in a performance differential, however I think the racing will suffer.

I think it will be better because those cars that have good balance with low fuel may not be as well-balanced when they are stuffed to the gills.

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 05 Nov 2009, 03:48

Ground-Effects aren't Dangerous.....Ground Effects of the Early 80's Were Dangerous.......

How many Serious Accidents did we see in Group C because of Ground Effects?...or GP2?...yeah they have Ground-Effects......Todays GP2 cars have Ground Effects and they produce great Racing....Why can't the FIA mandate a Spec Undertray that has the Tunnels?....You don't need Skirts for the Ground Effect to work.....

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 Nov 2009, 03:55

thehemogoblin wrote:The double-diffusers need to go away.

I do believe they'll be banned for net season.

My dad reckons that the FIA didn't just know about the possibility that someone would create a more imaginitive interpretation of the rule book, but that they intentionally left it wide-open to let teams other than Ferrari and McLaren come to the fore. Then when Brawn started dominating, he thinks they were forced to do a re-write to close the gap, victims of their own success ...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 05 Nov 2009, 04:41

Captain Hammer wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:The double-diffusers need to go away.

I do believe they'll be banned for net season.

My dad reckons that the FIA didn't just know about the possibility that someone would create a more imaginitive interpretation of the rule book, but that they intentionally left it wide-open to let teams other than Ferrari and McLaren come to the fore. Then when Brawn started dominating, he thinks they were forced to do a re-write to close the gap, victims of their own success ...

I'm sure there's plenty of holes in the rules that could be successfully exploited if discovered.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Nov 2009, 14:00

Fitch wrote:Ground-Effects aren't Dangerous.....Ground Effects of the Early 80's Were Dangerous.......

How many Serious Accidents did we see in Group C because of Ground Effects?...or GP2?...yeah they have Ground-Effects......Todays GP2 cars have Ground Effects and they produce great Racing....Why can't the FIA mandate a Spec Undertray that has the Tunnels?....You don't need Skirts for the Ground Effect to work.....

I have to reckon I'm not an specialist in aerodynamics, and I didn't know that GP2 cars had ground effects... :oops:

Perhaps races would be more exciting with some occasional flips

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 05 Nov 2009, 14:19

Fitch wrote:How many Serious Accidents did we see in Group C because of Ground Effects?...

We did see a race red-flagged because they sucked a manhole cover up into the air, is that dangerous enough?

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 05 Nov 2009, 14:22

Toyota boss crying, not very nice......
http://f1.blog.hu/2009/11/05/megtort_a_ ... elenteskor

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:24

Jordan192 wrote:
Fitch wrote:How many Serious Accidents did we see in Group C because of Ground Effects?...

We did see a race red-flagged because they sucked a manhole cover up into the air, is that dangerous enough?

Holy crap! Is that serious?

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:33

CarlosFerreira wrote:Holy crap! Is that serious?

Montreal 1990. Went into someone's fuel tank.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:59

Jordan192 wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Holy crap! Is that serious?

Montreal 1990. Went into someone's fuel tank.

Thought it was Montoya's McLaren at the inagaraul Chinese GP that was being referred to, or was that merely a safety car situation?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 05 Nov 2009, 19:56

Jordan192 wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Holy crap! Is that serious?

Montreal 1990. Went into someone's fuel tank.

I didn't know that there were manhole covers at circuit's tarmac...

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 12 Nov 2009, 16:16

An update to this story. Toyota are apparently looking to sell their 2010 F1 car.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 1973&FS=F1

I know the new teams are (seemingly) doing alright in terms of developing a car but surely this should be looked into as the Toyota will probably be quite a bit quicker round the track. The only problem I see is getting the design to work with a Cosworth.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 12 Nov 2009, 21:16

Tealy wrote:An update to this story. Toyota are apparently looking to sell their 2010 F1 car.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 1973&FS=F1

I know the new teams are (seemingly) doing alright in terms of developing a car surely this should be looked into as the Toyota will probably be quite a bit quicker round the track. The only problem I see is getting the design to work with a Cosworth.

USF1 running Toyota chassis? :roll: