2012 Italian Grand Prix Discussion Thread

[mario]

On another note, some might have noted that Vergne was complaining about back pains after he car was launched over the kerbs in the first turn - the good news is that, according to the latest reports from the medical centre, Vergne has been discharged with no serious injuries (it seems that he is suffering from nothing worse than a bit of bruising to his back). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102403

However, as things stand both Vergne and the team are unsure what caused the accident in the first place - all Vergne can remember is that the rear end of the car snapped round on him without warning (which sounds to me like some sort of mechanical failure). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102403

[jackanderton]

Depressing for the car improvement side of things that this was Caterham's 2nd best placings of the season yet didn't offer a threat all weekend. This may be because of Toro Rosso's development but not very hopeful.

In other reject news HRT looked more involved in things than usual and Pic supposedly had a good day for Marussia (though all I saw was him dangerously blocking a Sauber into turn 1).

[14 Hundred Hours]

Kimi is 3rd in the WCC

Is Kimi a car? A car driving a car

Damn, my finger slipped I meant WDC there of course.

Unless he is in fact a highly developed android, in which case his constructors are doing pretty darn well.

[Ataxia]

I am now about to stick up for D'Ambrosio and Kobayashi...

I heard it mentioned that Jerome had a KERS issue, and he did a sound job if that were the case. He didn't bin it (he did get out of shape at Lesmo 2, but then again, who didn't?). I do think we expected a little much from him, and for a first run in the car under actual race conditions he was good.

As for Kobayashi, he doesn't seem to suit the economy drives that Sauber like to employ. Had his tyre strategy been swapped around (if he'd done his qualifying lap on the hards) then he might have had more pace in the latter stages on the medium compound. When Kamui gets his hands on fresh, soft tyres he's deadly; Valencia and Japan 2010 spring to mind when he picked up some softer tyres at the end and just swashbuckled his way through the field. His drive today wasn't fundamentally bad, I just don't think the tyre strategy really came to him. [/bias]

[pasta_maldonado]

As for Kobayashi, he doesn't seem to suit the economy drives that Sauber like to employ. Had his tyre strategy been swapped around (if he'd done his qualifying lap on the hards) then he might have had more pace in the latter stages on the medium compound. When Kamui gets his hands on fresh, soft tyres he's deadly; Valencia and Japan 2010 spring to mind when he picked up some softer tyres at the end and just swashbuckled his way through the field. His drive today wasn't fundamentally bad, I just don't think the tyre strategy really came to him. [/bias]

You can tell that he has the pace, he's demonstrated it on numerous occasions, but I fear his career's going the way of Sato's...

[Paul Hayes]

Such a shame for Button - that's put paid to any faint hopes he still had of challenging for the title, I should think.

Incredible drive from Perez, if only there had been a few more laps left for him to have a go at Hamilton for the win!

[Ataxia]

As for Kobayashi, he doesn't seem to suit the economy drives that Sauber like to employ. Had his tyre strategy been swapped around (if he'd done his qualifying lap on the hards) then he might have had more pace in the latter stages on the medium compound. When Kamui gets his hands on fresh, soft tyres he's deadly; Valencia and Japan 2010 spring to mind when he picked up some softer tyres at the end and just swashbuckled his way through the field. His drive today wasn't fundamentally bad, I just don't think the tyre strategy really came to him. [/bias]

You can tell that he has the pace, he's demonstrated it on numerous occasions, but I fear his career's going the way of Sato's...

I hope not, he's definitely better than Sato ever was...

Anyone else think Pirelli have become a bit self-conscious? They've brought the two hardest compounds to the last two races, and most people 1-stopped today. Pirelli, you're so boring now.

[LellaLombardi]

Kobayashi is a very good driver. But Perez is a gifted driver.

[Shadaza]

I am not happy with the way the stewarding is going on in F1.
Di Resta pushes Bruno Senna off the track in a really disgraceful move (To me no different to Michael Schumacher-Barrichello Hungary 2010) and isn't even forced to give the posistion back. As a result of the move, Senna blindly crosses in to the path of Webber and nearly takes the pair of them out, in a really ridiculously unsafe move to get back on circuit when he could have simply stayed to the right and off the racing line.

Despite this neither of the incidents are even investigated. Yet the Alonso-Vettel incident which is far more marginal warrents a drive through for Vettel.

[pasta_maldonado]

I am not happy with the way the stewarding is going on in F1.
Di Resta pushes Bruno Senna off the track in a really disgraceful move (To me no different to Michael Schumacher-Barrichello Hungary 2010) and isn't even forced to give the posistion back. As a result of the move, Senna blindly crosses in to the path of Webber and nearly takes the pair of them out, in a really ridiculously unsafe move to get back on circuit when he could have simply stayed to the right and off the racing line.

Despite this neither of the incidents are even investigated. Yet the Alonso-Vettel incident which is far more marginal warrents a drive through for Vettel.

Vettel did deserve a penalty though, in my opinion, but the stewards should have definately investigated the other two. The Ferrari International Assistance backronym surfaces again...

[Nuppiz]

I am not happy with the way the stewarding is going on in F1.
Di Resta pushes Bruno Senna off the track in a really disgraceful move (To me no different to Michael Schumacher-Barrichello Hungary 2010) and isn't even forced to give the posistion back. As a result of the move, Senna blindly crosses in to the path of Webber and nearly takes the pair of them out, in a really ridiculously unsafe move to get back on circuit when he could have simply stayed to the right and off the racing line.

Despite this neither of the incidents are even investigated. Yet the Alonso-Vettel incident which is far more marginal warrents a drive through for Vettel.

Vettel did deserve a penalty though, in my opinion, but the stewards should have definately investigated the other two. The Ferrari International Assistance backronym surfaces again...

No, he didn't deserve that drivethrough. Alonso was far behind Vettel and then drove into a position where there simply was no room at all. What did he expect, that Vettel would just kindly move over and let the Golden Boy get past?

Personally, I was so sickened by this race that I left the TV room as soon as the top 10 crossed the line - the only thing that kept we watching to the end was Perez's charge to 2nd.

[QuickYoda41]

Anyone else think Pirelli have become a bit self-conscious? They've brought the two hardest compounds to the last two races, and most people 1-stopped today. Pirelli, you're so boring now.

I think it's good that we had this combination. Boring would it be only when Mercedes one-stops.

[AdrianSutil]

Fantastic drive by Perez. Future Champion.

LOL at RedBull.

That is all...

[QuickYoda41]

As for Kobayashi, he doesn't seem to suit the economy drives that Sauber like to employ. Had his tyre strategy been swapped around (if he'd done his qualifying lap on the hards) then he might have had more pace in the latter stages on the medium compound. When Kamui gets his hands on fresh, soft tyres he's deadly; Valencia and Japan 2010 spring to mind when he picked up some softer tyres at the end and just swashbuckled his way through the field. His drive today wasn't fundamentally bad, I just don't think the tyre strategy really came to him. [/bias]

You can tell that he has the pace, he's demonstrated it on numerous occasions, but I fear his career's going the way of Sato's...

Well, until he has a year like Sato's 2005, I doubt that. It's very much likely, though that Kamui'll never get a race-winning car.

[Pedestrian]

Aaaargh...! once again Fernando has the devil's own luck + team orders + disgusting favouritism from the FIA. Good thing that at least Perez took second place form him. Go Perez!

In the championship, it's clear that the battle is now between Alonso , Lewis and Kimi. Now I'm rooting for either one of the last two. I like Button but afte this retierment it's game over for him.
And in the WCC McLaren are still trailing Red bull by a big margin, and Button's retirement means they again couldn't maximize their advantage, but judging by the relative perfomance of the cars displayed today, McLaren still has a shot at the title.

Vettel deserved that penalty. He pushed Alonso off the road at over 200mph. Alonso is lucky he had 2 wheels still on track, if the car went completely off, at 200mph, who knows if Alonso would still be alive right now. Team orders are also legal now, and Alonso has a championship lead to retain, which is much more important than the underperforming Brazilian to finally take a podium.

- That's not what I saw. When I watched the replay form Alonso's car, it looked like he was going to miss the apex of that turn anyway due to the trajectory he had choosen. He basically tried to pass Vettel off-track.
- Also, this time it was very obvious that the stewards are especially protective of Ferrari. Senna was allso pushed off track by another driver today and there was no penalty. And in previous races, some drivers (like Grosjean, Maldonado or Hamilton) all got away with similar or worse things, unless they were bothering a Ferrari driver.

[Pedestrian]

As for Kobayashi, he doesn't seem to suit the economy drives that Sauber like to employ. Had his tyre strategy been swapped around (if he'd done his qualifying lap on the hards) then he might have had more pace in the latter stages on the medium compound. When Kamui gets his hands on fresh, soft tyres he's deadly; Valencia and Japan 2010 spring to mind when he picked up some softer tyres at the end and just swashbuckled his way through the field. His drive today wasn't fundamentally bad, I just don't think the tyre strategy really came to him. [/bias]

You can tell that he has the pace, he's demonstrated it on numerous occasions, but I fear his career's going the way of Sato's...

Well, until he has a year like Sato's 2005, I doubt that. It's very much likely, though that Kamui'll never get a race-winning car.

Who knows? Maybe he is lucky and can switch to another team now while his star is still rising. I wouldn't say that Perez is better in general, but I would say that Perez is better in a Sauber.

[Ataxia]

Just a little OT, but Sky had a nice feature with Nigel Roebuck on Ronnie Peterson today.

Who knows? Maybe he is lucky and can switch to another team now while his star is still rising. I wouldn't say that Perez is better in general, but I would say that Perez is better in a Sauber.

I think Kamui might suit someone like Merc who aren't afraid to use a stop or two more than their rivals; might give them a kick up the arse a bit...

[Barbazza]

I think Vettel's penalty was a tad harsh, but when you compare it to last year's similar incident, it definitely looked worse. It is weird that they didn't look at Di Resta's move on Senna though.

I also think that D'Ambrosio did OK, he didn't make any huge mistakes and he wasn't lapped. He wasn't that far off a point either. Considering the Lotus in Kimi's hands didn't look great either it certainly wasn't disastrous.

At least we didn't have too much Horner screentime this week, though we did get the usual McLaren corporate blah in extremis - we want to win races, we don't care about championships! If that's not bullshit, then it's nonsense. You don't want to win titles?! You know, like Alonso's been doing by accumulating points regularly despite not having the best car - that's more classy IMO.

[mario]

I think Vettel's penalty was a tad harsh, but when you compare it to last year's similar incident, it definitely looked worse. It is weird that they didn't look at Di Resta's move on Senna though.

I also think that D'Ambrosio did OK, he didn't make any huge mistakes and he wasn't lapped. He wasn't that far off a point either. Considering the Lotus in Kimi's hands didn't look great either it certainly wasn't disastrous.

At least we didn't have too much Horner screentime this week, though we did get the usual McLaren corporate blah in extremis - we want to win races, we don't care about championships! If that's not bullshit, then it's nonsense. You don't want to win titles?! You know, like Alonso's been doing by accumulating points regularly despite not having the best car - that's more classy IMO.

The incident between Alonso and Vettel is going to be a major talking point for some time, even though in the end it doesn't matter given that Vettel had to retire from the race with that alternator failure (a failure that seems to be causing some consternation back at Renault, since they had modified the design of the spindle in an attempt to get around some of the issues).

Still, the justification from the stewards is that they considered the front of Alonso's car to have been at least level with the rear axle of Vettel's car at the time that Vettel moved towards the outside of the Curva Grande. Given that situation, it is understandable that Bruno Senna is rather angry that the stewards didn't even bother looking twice at Di Resta's defensive driving despite the fact that they clipped each other in the braking zone:

"It was pretty clear," said Senna. "I had the front wing of my car next to his car and then of course the tyre under braking and he squeezed me off the track.

"We touched. Fortunately, we didn't launch each other but for me a driver has been banned for a race for doing something similar to that and even [Sebastian] Vettel got a drive-through penalty for squeezing [Fernando] Alonso off the track.

"It's a stewards' decision, so we'll respect it, but I don't think that what Paul did was right. It's racing and sometimes we make errors in judgement but it's up to the stewards to decide."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102428

Personally, I'd have to agree - if what Vettel did to Alonso was deemed worthy of a penalty, shouldn't Di Resta have also picked up a penalty for his moves? I would have thought that the stewards would have investigated that move at the very least considering that contact was made between the two drivers and Bruno ended up on the grass.

[koza]

Bernie, take a good look at these fans, and then ask yourself if it's worth the money to race at places like Abu Dhabi, Bahrain or China.

Someone give this man a beer!

And could you explain me why no penalty for Di Resta?

[Nuppiz]

And could you explain me why no penalty for Di Resta?

Taking a leaf out of the stewards' arguments for Grosjean's ban: he didn't cause trouble to any of the leading championship contenders.

In other words, because he didn't harass a Ferrari.

[James1978]

Anyone else think Pirelli have become a bit self-conscious? They've brought the two hardest compounds to the last two races, and most people 1-stopped today. Pirelli, you're so boring now.

I think they had to bring durable compounds at a track like Monza where passing is relatively easier to pass on than others, if they'd picked softer ones everyone would just DRS each other easily if they had a tyre advantage. I would like to see the super-softs back for Singapore though!

[AndreaModa]

In other reject news HRT looked more involved in things than usual and Pic supposedly had a good day for Marussia (though all I saw was him dangerously blocking a Sauber into turn 1).

According to Marussia's own press releases prior to the race weekend, they weren't hoping for much as they said their car wasn't suited to a low downforce setup, but by the end of the race Pic was only 10 seconds away from Petrov, and Glock was just a little further back having had to make that early stop for a new front wing. Along with their good performance in Belgium, I'd say they've made some decent progress since the summer break. Hopefully they keep it up for the rest of the season.

As for the whining about the FIA and Ferrari, get a grip lads, it's not 2002 any more!

[AdrianSutil]

What happened to Ricciardo on the last lap? Is there a video?

[the Masked Lapwing]

What happened to Ricciardo on the last lap? Is there a video?

He had a fuel pick up problem, and had pretty much no drive out of the Parabolica.

So basically, more Red Bull unreliability

[AdrianSutil]

What happened to Ricciardo on the last lap? Is there a video?

He had a fuel pick up problem, and had pretty much no drive out of the Parabolica.

So basically, more Red Bull unreliability

So he got passed by both Williams cars on the run to the line? Tough luck on Ricciardo. He drove pretty well.

[Salamander]

Here's a video showing the Vettel/Alonso incidents in 2011 and 2012 side-by-side. All I'll say is that I support the penalty for Vettel, but think that the FIA should've at least investigated the Senna/di Resta incident.

[Jocke1]

A little late I know, I wanted to post this during the race weekend at Monza but I couldn't find a photo until now.
I was happy to see Luca in the Ferrari garage, but also sad that it wasn't 2009 again and he still had the race seat at his disposal.