Odd Williams development

[Jordan192]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80242

I initially misread and thought they'd sold up completely, but it looks like it's just a stake they've sold.

[rffp]

They sold a stake to an Austrian investor named Toto Wolff.
Has anyone heard of him?

Is he a Mansour Ojjeh that will take the team to new heights or a Pete Monteverdi that will have no clue of the business?
I think it will tend to be more the first, since I still believe that Frank and Patrick still are very fond of their team. But it is a disturbing news in my opinion. Formula-1 has too many investors from unkown to the public companies, it reminds me too much of the 89-93 era.

[CarlosFerreira]

He sounds kind of respectable. Has raced for a while in GTs, is co-owner of Hakkinen's pilot management company, is DTM racer Susie Stobbart's boyfriend. There's some videos on the interweb of him doing the old Ring in 7 minutes something in a Porsche 997 RSR, so he's no slouch, and then totalling the car when a tyre blew up.

Sounds like a good investor.

[rffp]

He sounds kind of respectable. Has raced for a while in GTs, is co-owner of Hakkinen's pilot management company, is DTM racer Susie Stobbart's boyfriend. There's some videos on the interweb of him doing the old Ring in 7 minutes something in a Porsche 997 RSR, so he's no slouch, and then totalling the car when a tyre blew up.

Sounds like a good investor.

Good to know! Let us hope that he can aid Williams in their struggle.

[eytl]

Clearly a second "F" in the surname makes a difference.

Williams' first tie-up with a Wolf, as in Walter Wolf in 1976, did not exactly go well ...

[Paul Hayes]

Ineed, Wolff-Williams anyone?

[Jordan]

Looks like we'll see a Wolff in Williams clothing.

[Ross Prawn]

I don't think its surprising that Frank and Patrick want to get a bit of cash out to meet their own needs. Its very sensible of them.

[howardmb]

An interesting analysis and background on who this new investor is and why it may be important to the future of Williams

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21988.html

[watka]

Clearly a second "F" in the surname makes a difference.

Williams' first tie-up with a Wolf, as in Walter Wolf in 1976, did not exactly go well ...

Wolf won its first ever race, like Brawn, and lasted longer than Brawn!

[jackanderton]

What slightly concerns me is why they didn't put a little bit aside when the going was good rather than selling a stake at this point in time when they're weakest. Presumably they'll receive some investment/sponsorship in return?

[Phoenix]

A possible Mercedes engine deal pursuit...would that mean a Williams resurgence?

[Nin13]

Just a small investor (<10% stake), and Williams will get some money that they badly need.........

[dr-baker]

Just a small investor (<10% stake), and Williams will get some money that they badly need.........

According to an Autosport article, it's actually between 10 and 49 %, not less than 10 as you suggest, but the Wolff is not at liberty to be more specific...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80255

[noisebox]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

[thehemogoblin]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

Their car has been practically devoid of sponsorship in recent years...

[noisebox]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

Their car has been practically devoid of sponsorship in recent years...

And they've lost their state sponsorship for 2010 (RBS)

[DemocalypseNow]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

Their car has been practically devoid of sponsorship in recent years...

And they've lost their state sponsorship for 2010 (RBS)

I also just heard rumours Philips could follow Rosberg to Mercedes...

[Chewie]

I also just heard rumours Philips could follow Rosberg to Mercedes...

the names i have heard are Becks beer, Orange mobile and another that has slipped my mind. Looks like they are building up quite a portfolio of sponsors.

[DemocalypseNow]

I also just heard rumours Philips could follow Rosberg to Mercedes...

the names i have heard are Becks beer, Orange mobile and another that has slipped my mind. Looks like they are building up quite a portfolio of sponsors.

Sponsors seem to love Manufacturers. Why else would Panasonic stick with deadbeats Toyota for 8 years?

[CarlosFerreira]

I also just heard rumours Philips could follow Rosberg to Mercedes...

the names i have heard are Becks beer, Orange mobile and another that has slipped my mind. Looks like they are building up quite a portfolio of sponsors.

Sponsors seem to love Manufacturers. Why else would Panasonic stick with deadbeats Toyota for 8 years?

I think, but can't confirm right now, that Toyota part-owned Panasonic. I hope it's not my mind making this up.

[Chewie]

I think, but can't confirm right now, that Toyota part-owned Panasonic. I hope it's not my mind making this up.

Toyota only win in Castrol colours! everyone knows that.

[DemocalypseNow]

I think, but can't confirm right now, that Toyota part-owned Panasonic. I hope it's not my mind making this up.

Afraid not..
The Panasonic brand is owned by Panasonic Corporation, who also own JVC, Sanyo, Technics etc. but Toyota do not have any major stake in them. Maybe they could have a few percent, but nothing that gives them influence.
They do however own another of their major sponsors, Denso.

And no Chewie, Castrol colours only make them impulsive to cheating. Ove Andresson got in soooo much trouble in the Castrol years

[CarlosFerreira]

I think, but can't confirm right now, that Toyota part-owned Panasonic. I hope it's not my mind making this up.

Toyota only win in Castrol colours! everyone knows that.

Well, there was that problem with the wastegate valve of the turbo...

Now that you mention it, it's been massive fail all along. I think the last time they won something big outside Japan was in 1990 or 1991, with the Marlboro-coloured Celica, Carlos Sainz's first WRC Championship. The strangely half-hearted attempt at taking Le Mans with the GT-One aborted on the second year, and I can't remember them doing especially well in anything else. Puzzling. Maybe it's the "Toyota way".

[noisebox]

I think, but can't confirm right now, that Toyota part-owned Panasonic. I hope it's not my mind making this up.

Afraid not..
The Panasonic brand is owned by Panasonic Corporation, who also own JVC, Sanyo, Technics etc. but Toyota do not have any major stake in them. Maybe they could have a few percent, but nothing that gives them influence.
They do however own another of their major sponsors, Denso.

And no Chewie, Castrol colours only make them impulsive to cheating. Ove Andresson got in soooo much trouble in the Castrol years

Toyota is Panasonic's biggest client - the sponsorship was to keep Toyota sweet.

[hclw]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

It seems that the money raised will not be going to the team, but rather Frank and patrick will pocket it themselves

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80249

Is it simply a change in ownership, or is it going to have a net capital boost for Williams to the degree that it can change the team's status?

FW: It's entirely for private motives. I've never taken a penny out in many decades and Patrick and I decided that it's time to take care of some other needs and pay a few bills - my mortgage, for example.

[thehemogoblin]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

It seems that the money raised will not be going to the team, but rather Frank and patrick will pocket it themselves

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80249

Is it simply a change in ownership, or is it going to have a net capital boost for Williams to the degree that it can change the team's status?

FW: It's entirely for private motives. I've never taken a penny out in many decades and Patrick and I decided that it's time to take care of some other needs and pay a few bills - my mortgage, for example.

It will trickle through to the racing team, one way or another.

[Phoenix]

I think, but can't confirm right now, that Toyota part-owned Panasonic. I hope it's not my mind making this up.

Toyota only win in Castrol colours! everyone knows that.

Well, there was that problem with the wastegate valve of the turbo...

Now that you mention it, it's been massive fail all along. I think the last time they won something big outside Japan was in 1990 or 1991, with the Marlboro-coloured Celica, Carlos Sainz's first WRC Championship. The strangely half-hearted attempt at taking Le Mans with the GT-One aborted on the second year, and I can't remember them doing especially well in anything else. Puzzling. Maybe it's the "Toyota way".

Half-hearted attempt? They wasted a lot of money in the GT-One, it was fitted with best of the best in parts, even if they weren't from Toyota. They only cared about showing its immense potential.
And it was quite succesful. They never won at Le Mans but they came really close to that in 1999, with Katayama.

[CarlosFerreira]

Half-hearted attempt? They wasted a lot of money in the GT-One, it was fitted with best of the best in parts, even if they weren't from Toyota. They only cared about showing its immense potential.
And it was quite succesful. They never won at Le Mans but they came really close to that in 1999, with Katayama.

Allow me to explain what I mean. The GT-One clearly was the dog's b***ocks, easily the quickest car in the field for one lap. However, this was the time of the GT1 regulations, where supposedly road-based cars fought it out on track. Didn't go that way, and all the "homologation specials" that year were simply racers neutered enough to get a license - and Mercedes started it, with that silly CLK-GTR.

Toyota did it, like everyone else, but they went further and the GT-One was clearly the less road-like of the lot. However, they refused to race in the GT1 Championship, and effectively only rolled the prototypes out twice, in 1998 and in 1999. You don't win Le Mans without hanging around for long enough (Porsche, Audi) or without a proven engine and a Williams-designed car (BMW). They wanted to go about succeeding in winning it their own way, from their home in Cologne, without engaging. Really, I found that half-hearted at best.

[Ross Prawn]

This suggests to me that they are in fairly serious financial trouble - the most staunchly independent team has sold what looks like a major share to an investor who they believe will be good at pulling in sponsorship...

It seems that the money raised will not be going to the team, but rather Frank and patrick will pocket it themselves

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80249

Is it simply a change in ownership, or is it going to have a net capital boost for Williams to the degree that it can change the team's status?

FW: It's entirely for private motives. I've never taken a penny out in many decades and Patrick and I decided that it's time to take care of some other needs and pay a few bills - my mortgage, for example.

It will trickle through to the racing team, one way or another.

Frank seems to be being completely open about it. He's 67, all his money is in the team, and he wants to get some cash out to for his own personal needs. All of that is perfectly understandable and perfectly sensible. Why look for some hidden motive?

[Phoenix]

Half-hearted attempt? They wasted a lot of money in the GT-One, it was fitted with best of the best in parts, even if they weren't from Toyota. They only cared about showing its immense potential.
And it was quite succesful. They never won at Le Mans but they came really close to that in 1999, with Katayama.

Allow me to explain what I mean. The GT-One clearly was the dog's b***ocks, easily the quickest car in the field for one lap. However, this was the time of the GT1 regulations, where supposedly road-based cars fought it out on track. Didn't go that way, and all the "homologation specials" that year were simply racers neutered enough to get a license - and Mercedes started it, with that silly CLK-GTR.

Toyota did it, like everyone else, but they went further and the GT-One was clearly the less road-like of the lot. However, they refused to race in the GT1 Championship, and effectively only rolled the prototypes out twice, in 1998 and in 1999. You don't win Le Mans without hanging around for long enough (Porsche, Audi) or without a proven engine and a Williams-designed car (BMW). They wanted to go about succeeding in winning it their own way, from their home in Cologne, without engaging. Really, I found that half-hearted at best.

Oh, OK, but I read once that they left their Le Mans programme (along with the rally programme) to concentrate in F1 instead. Perhaps they would have tried it harder if there didn't get to F1?

[CarlosFerreira]

Oh, OK, but I read once that they left their Le Mans programme (along with the rally programme) to concentrate in F1 instead. Perhaps they would have tried it harder if there didn't get to F1?

Oh, sure. And, with the benefit of hindsight, might have been a better choice.

[Phoenix]

Oh, OK, but I read once that they left their Le Mans programme (along with the rally programme) to concentrate in F1 instead. Perhaps they would have tried it harder if there didn't get to F1?

Oh, sure. And, with the benefit of hindsight, might have been a better choice.

Now that they've quit F1 they can do that

[eagleash]

Clearly a second "F" in the surname makes a difference.

Williams' first tie-up with a Wolf, as in Walter Wolf in 1976, did not exactly go well ...

Wolf won its first ever race, like Brawn, and lasted longer than Brawn!

True but it was after they designed their own car from scratch (ish) & the Willy connection was long gone. Brawn carries on under a different name. Wolf quite quickly vanished.

[RejectSteve]

Half-hearted attempt? They wasted a lot of money in the GT-One, it was fitted with best of the best in parts, even if they weren't from Toyota. They only cared about showing its immense potential.
And it was quite succesful. They never won at Le Mans but they came really close to that in 1999, with Katayama.

Toyota did it, like everyone else, but they went further and the GT-One was clearly the less road-like of the lot. However, they refused to race in the GT1 Championship, and effectively only rolled the prototypes out twice, in 1998 and in 1999. You don't win Le Mans without hanging around for long enough (Porsche, Audi) or without a proven engine and a Williams-designed car (BMW). They wanted to go about succeeding in winning it their own way, from their home in Cologne, without engaging. Really, I found that half-hearted at best.

The cost of the GT-One program was rumoured to be USD 100m to run three cars at Le Mans twice - though one was entered at the Le Mans Fuji 1000km race - after the Le Mans effort ended - where it also finished second a lap behind the factory Nissan R391.

Part of Toyota's reasoning for not running in the FIA GT Championship in 1998 may have been due to rules differences between the FIA and ACO. The FIA GT compliant cars were not permitted to run ABS while the ACO allowed that technology. The FIA, possibly, may not have budged at Toyota's claim that the required 'luggage space' (if also required by the FIA) was permissible to contain the fuel tank, which the ACO allowed. As you suggest, Carlos, it may have been Toyota's attitude - the previous sports cars efforts were developed by Tom's and SARD in Japan. Whether it be the Supra GTs in the then-JGTC or the Group C monsters in the JSPC, Toyota was getting milage while they had no classes and miserable logistics if they wished to run the Cologne-based GT-Ones in Japan.

[DemocalypseNow]

Part of Toyota's reasoning for not running in the FIA GT Championship in 1998 may have been due to rules differences between the FIA and ACO.

The irony to all this is the ACO banned the Maserati MC-12 GT1 car because they said it exceeded regulations. Imagine an MC-12 vs a GT-One?! No contest.

[RejectSteve]

Part of Toyota's reasoning for not running in the FIA GT Championship in 1998 may have been due to rules differences between the FIA and ACO.

The irony to all this is the ACO banned the Maserati MC-12 GT1 car because they said it exceeded regulations. Imagine an MC-12 vs a GT-One?! No contest.

The GT-One's intended GT1 class became GTP (then disappeared, re-emerging as GTP and now in the LMP1) while the MC-12's GT1 is the current GT1. The Toyota would blow the doors off the MC-12. It would make an interesting race, especially with the comically pathetic Cannibal WSC involved.