Campos For Sale.....

[Fitch]

According to an Article on SpeedTV the Campos Meta team is for Sale.......Either partly or Completely.........

The team has apparently admitted that they don't have a Full budget and are looking for someone to buy either a stake in the Team, or the Whole Team......

[TomWazzleshaw]

Bruno Senna is suddenly in the same boat as Robert Kubica. He's good for the team but the team isn't good for him.
I hear there's another seat at Sauber to fill

[thehemogoblin]

I hear there's a Serbian guy with a car that may want his spot.

[RejectSteve]

I hear there's a Serbian guy with a car that may want his spot.

Embratel Favorit StefanCampos Meta Dallara Cosworth Bridgestone Grand Prix Engineering F1 Team

[thehemogoblin]

I hear there's a Serbian guy with a car that may want his spot.

Scuderia Embratel Favorit StefanCampos Meta Dallara Cosworth Bridgestone Grand Prix Engineering F1 Team Squad Thing

Fixed.

[Jordan192]

Autosport are running a story linking Tony 'A1GP' Teixera to a buy-in.

[CarlosFerreira]

Until a month ago, they seemed the strongest of the new teams, now they're up there with AlabamaF1.

[mario]

Perhaps it is appropriate for me to bring up a question here which I raised in the ROTY 2010 thread. Considering that A1GP is struggling to pay it's debts (after all, they had their cars impounded in Australia because they couldn't pay the freight company) and has almost collapsed, you have to question the management (and finances) of Teixeira.
From the start, there have been rumours that Campos was short of funds - now, the truth is finally out that they don't have enough money to compete. At this rate, we should start writing the F1 Rejects profile now, because they might not last until the end of the season.
So, Campos is short of money and USF1 may or may not be on the grid come the start of the season. What was the FIA thinking when they got places ahead of Lola and Prodrive? Oh, of course; Lola and Prodrive wanted to use manufacturer engines and the FIA only wanted Cosworth powered entries.

[CarlosFerreira]

Perhaps it is appropriate for me to bring up a question here which I raised in the ROTY 2010 thread. Considering that A1GP is struggling to pay it's debts (after all, they had their cars impounded in Australia because they couldn't pay the freight company) and has almost collapsed, you have to question the management (and finances) of Teixeira.

There's two different bit there, and I am only going for the Teixeira/A1GP part. Don't know enough about Prodrive and Lola's business plans and what guarantees they presented to actually have an opinion.

My point is a financial one. I don't follow AIGP, have no idea where Teixeira came from, or what the origin of his money may be, but one thing I can tell you is companies and entrepreneurial ventures don't treat finance as I do on my everyday life. Tony Teixeira is most certainly not using up his own private money if he is indeed thinking about buying into Campos, and neither is he using A1GP money. They are separate things. The fact one of his ventures may have collapsed (or is about to), does not mean he does not have the money (which effectively means he can't or does not want to access the money in capital markets); it means it can't sustain itself, and it's going down. Life goes on after bankruptcy; sadly, it's usual the workers that take the worst hit, because they do depend on the firm staying in business for their livelihood. Owners, by keeping things separated, can move on to the next venture relatively unscathed.

[Captain Hammer]

From the start, there have been rumours that Campos was short of funds - now, the truth is finally out that they don't have enough money to compete. At this rate, we should start writing the F1 Rejects profile now, because they might not last until the end of the season.

Campos were relying on the budget cap, and complained when it didn't happen. Considering that both of the two drivers they're looking to sign - Petrov and maldonado - bring over twenty million dollars in sponsorship, I'd say they're looking for money for the future, to develop the 2010 car and make inroads on a 2011 calendar. Because if they can't make up their budget without the money Petrov or Maldonado would bring, they never would have gotten a car developed in the first place.

So, Campos is short of money and USF1 may or may not be on the grid come the start of the season. What was the FIA thinking when they got places ahead of Lola and Prodrive? Oh, of course; Lola and Prodrive wanted to use manufacturer engines and the FIA only wanted Cosworth powered entries.

Again, the budget cap. But you cannot overlook the fact that Prodrive tried to get onto the 2008 grid and never made it. Regardless of who you hold to blame for that, the FIA is not going to forget that they didn't show up any time soon.

[CarlosFerreira]

Captain, while I agree with what you said (and I'm glad you took up the other bit of mario's post), I would argue Campos has been, in the very least, innocent to believe that budget cap was ever going to stick. It seems they had a pretty shaky business plan themselves, doesn't it?

BTW, how is that technical help established teams promised to give the new teams coming along?

[Mister Fungus]

Until a month ago, they seemed the strongest of the new teams, now they're up there with AlabamaF1.

I disagree, from media reports Campos has been trying to sell his team at least since August. I never understood why so many people doubt USF1 when Campos seems to be in a much worse position.

[CarlosFerreira]

Until a month ago, they seemed the strongest of the new teams, now they're up there with AlabamaF1.

I disagree, from media reports Campos has been trying to sell his team at least since August. I never understood why so many people doubt USF1 when Campos seems to be in a much worse position.

In my case, it's probably because they have already signed a marketing-friendly pilot up and because they have a Dallara chassis. I mean, if anyone is to buy into the company - and to sell part of it may have been the plan all along - it looks like a better-than-average prospect. Campos may not have money, but they sure have juicy assets: entry into the 2010 F1 season assured, Senna, Dallara contract. As long as there is someone who wants into F1, they're the first door to knock on.

[Popi_Larrauri]

Captain, while I agree with what you said (and I'm glad you took up the other bit of mario's post), I would argue Campos has been, in the very least, innocent to believe that budget cap was ever going to stick. It seems they had a pretty shaky business plan themselves, doesn't it?

BTW, how is that technical help established teams promised to give the new teams coming along?

I respectfully disagree. FIA, promised these guys a budget cap. Therefore, they were elected because they complied with that standard and then the whole game was reshuffled, including a parallel formula that never eventuated. And, as you said, there was the small letter condition of receiving technical help (in any case they do not seem to be complaining about it).

I agree on what you said about capital involvement (in your example with Texeira), I'll add a bit more. Newcomer cases may be in a case of conditional involvement from market partners (not only in terms of capital, but on the technical side), according these conditions with the development of some particular events, for example, getting the proper funding (as funny as it's sounds).

[CarlosFerreira]

Captain, while I agree with what you said (and I'm glad you took up the other bit of mario's post), I would argue Campos has been, in the very least, innocent to believe that budget cap was ever going to stick. It seems they had a pretty shaky business plan themselves, doesn't it?

BTW, how is that technical help established teams promised to give the new teams coming along?

I respectfully disagree. FIA, promised these guys a budget cap. Therefore, they were elected because they complied with that standard and then the whole game was reshuffled, including a parallel formula that never eventuated. And, as you said, there was the small letter condition of receiving technical help (in any case they do not seem to be complaining about it).

Bang on. You're right when you say these teams did comply with the standard at the time, and the FIA was responsible for allowing them in despite the fact they had tight budgets compared with everyone else. There should be some red-faced people among those present and formerly involved in this decision-making process. Oi Max, we're looking at you.

Actually curious about that tech support stuff. They're all part of FOTA now, I wonder if the help is silently going on? I suppose so, or else there'd have been some complaining by now.

[mario]

From the start, there have been rumours that Campos was short of funds - now, the truth is finally out that they don't have enough money to compete. At this rate, we should start writing the F1 Rejects profile now, because they might not last until the end of the season.

Campos were relying on the budget cap, and complained when it didn't happen. Considering that both of the two drivers they're looking to sign - Petrov and Maldonado - bring over twenty million dollars in sponsorship, I'd say they're looking for money for the future, to develop the 2010 car and make inroads on a 2011 calendar. Because if they can't make up their budget without the money Petrov or Maldonado would bring, they never would have gotten a car developed in the first place.

It seems that Campos are already starting to struggle to pay Dallara on time for the work on their 2010 cars, let alone 2011.

With the construction of the second chassis and enough spare parts to go testing and racing looming, Campos needs to find a large amount of money as soon as possible or risk delaying the Italian company's work even further. According to sources close to Dallara payments have been delayed, with the company slowing down the development of the car and it's now certain Campos won't be able to attend the Valencia test at the start of February even if it finds all the money it needs to run the 2010 campaign quickly.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22023.html
And yes, they were relying on the budget cap, so the fact that the FIA underestimated the resistance from FOTA over the proposals and failed to bring them in was a big blow to them. Now, you could argue that believing that FOTA would happily agree to a proposal which would have required large personnel cuts and major restrictions on equipment use, when there was only a year to adjust, was foolish (and I can see the argument).
As a counter, like the FIA, they probably thought that the shock of losing Honda, along with the knowledge that (at the time) the boardrooms behind Toyota and Renault were looking to leave if costs didn't drop, was enough to trigger reform.

Either way, it seems that they were unprepared for what would happen if things went wrong - and now they are in a difficult position. At the very least, it now seems that they are going to miss out on two of the four pre-season tests; that would hit any team badly, let alone a new team with drivers who haven't driven in F1 before.

Actually curious about that tech support stuff. They're all part of FOTA now, I wonder if the help is silently going on? I suppose so, or else there'd have been some complaining by now.

I really have no idea whether any of the new teams have been helped out by the established teams. I got the impression that the deals would have been similar to the Mclaren-Force India partnership, where they collaborate on research work - but as far as I am aware, nobody has published aything about technical support for the new teams recently.

[DemocalypseNow]

You have all missed the most important part of this story...

At the same time Stefan Grand Prix continues to work as if it's taking part in the coming championship, even though the Serbian company has not been given an entry, with Bernie Ecclestone supporting the deal done with Toyota and, allegedly, pushing hard to make the other teams accept it as a suitable replacement for Campos Meta 1 in the 2010 Formula One World Championship - a move the FIA could be far from keen to endorse following the legal challenge made by Zoran Stefanovich to the Federation's team selection criteria.

According to German sources Stefan GP has bee handed what would have been the Toyota TF110 chassis, with engines and gearboxes included and will field Kazuki Nakajima in one of its cars should an entry in the championship become available.

It had to be Nakajima now Kobayashi has gone to Sauber, didn't it? No doubt its because a load of crisp 20s were handed to Mr Stefaovic under the table...

[CarlosFerreira]

You have all missed the most important part of this story...

At the same time Stefan Grand Prix continues to work as if it's taking part in the coming championship, even though the Serbian company has not been given an entry, with Bernie Ecclestone supporting the deal done with Toyota and, allegedly, pushing hard to make the other teams accept it as a suitable replacement for Campos Meta 1 in the 2010 Formula One World Championship - a move the FIA could be far from keen to endorse following the legal challenge made by Zoran Stefanovich to the Federation's team selection criteria.

According to German sources Stefan GP has bee handed what would have been the Toyota TF110 chassis, with engines and gearboxes included and will field Kazuki Nakajima in one of its cars should an entry in the championship become available.

It had to be Nakajima now Kobayashi has gone to Sauber, didn't it? No doubt its because a load of crisp 20s were handed to Mr Stefaovic under the table...

That'd be an absolute cracker. Between them, Campos and StefanGP could come up with enough infrastructure, pilots, technology and cash to field half a team! Last year's Toyota engine, which was the least powerful around, in an undeveloped chassis, driven by a reject. Pure wet dream.

[P_Friesacher]

Also there was this interview with Stefanovic from november, in which he (apparently, I don't speak Croatian, so if anyone does, please correct me) says that Campos already tried to sell him his team, but the price was too high.

[mario]

That'd be an absolute cracker. Between them, Campos and StefanGP could come up with enough infrastructure, pilots, technology and cash to field half a team! Last year's Toyota engine, which was the least powerful around, in an undeveloped chassis, driven by a reject. Pure wet dream.

The Toyota engine might have been the least powerful, but that was partially because Toyota ran a leaner fuel mix then most teams. So, peak power might have been 830-840 bhp, which is not that far off the highest (855bhp for the Mercedes unit), but fuel consumption was around 0.075-0.1kg less then the more powerful units. So, in the non refuling era, they could theoretically have been closer. I'm not sure what you mean about the undeveloped chassis, though; the TF109 was a reasonably good car (unless you mean the Dallara chassis).

You have all missed the most important part of this story...

At the same time Stefan Grand Prix continues to work as if it's taking part in the coming championship, even though the Serbian company has not been given an entry, with Bernie Ecclestone supporting the deal done with Toyota and, allegedly, pushing hard to make the other teams accept it as a suitable replacement for Campos Meta 1 in the 2010 Formula One World Championship - a move the FIA could be far from keen to endorse following the legal challenge made by Zoran Stefanovich to the Federation's team selection criteria.

According to German sources Stefan GP has bee handed what would have been the Toyota TF110 chassis, with engines and gearboxes included and will field Kazuki Nakajima in one of its cars should an entry in the championship become available.

It had to be Nakajima now Kobayashi has gone to Sauber, didn't it? No doubt its because a load of crisp 20s were handed to Mr Stefaovic under the table...

Thing is, the most important part of the story I can see is this:

even though the Serbian company has not been given an entry

So kostas22, I would leave the champagne on ice for a little longer yet...

[CarlosFerreira]

That'd be an absolute cracker. Between them, Campos and StefanGP could come up with enough infrastructure, pilots, technology and cash to field half a team! Last year's Toyota engine, which was the least powerful around, in an undeveloped chassis, driven by a reject. Pure wet dream.

The Toyota engine might have been the least powerful, but that was partially because Toyota ran a leaner fuel mix then most teams. So, peak power might have been 830-840 bhp, which is not that far off the highest (855bhp for the Mercedes unit), but fuel consumption was around 0.075-0.1kg less then the more powerful units. So, in the non refuling era, they could theoretically have been closer. I'm not sure what you mean about the undeveloped chassis, though; the TF109 was a reasonably good car (unless you mean the Dallara chassis).

Difficult to say about the engine mario, but it'd definitely have to be optimized to the new rules - and I wouldn't be confident StefanGP has the means to do so.

Regarding the chassis, I did mean the Toyota TF110. My point is its development stopped the day before Toyota announced they were pulling the plug. These days, everyone in F1 is going flat out and there's simply no stopping development. Again, I wouldn't be too confident StefanGP has the means and expertise to pick up where Toyota left and improve; so unless it's an episode like the Honda-Brawn BGP001 (where they had produced such a dominant car that, even with little or no development during the Winter, it was the class of the field come the season), the tub StefanGP holds at the moment is an underdeveloped chassis. Now, I don't know where the Campos-Dallara chassis is at the moment, but I'm guessing it may actually be more developed. It better be, for the sake of the team.

[Jordan]

I think Dave Richards should be paged. I'd still like to see Prodrive in F1. Then again, if their budget is the reason for a sale, partial or otherwise, one would have to question their preparation and whether it would be wise to buy such a team. Presumably their car will be affected by their budget, or lack thereof?


Edit: Mike Richards is a hockey player, Dave Richards is the Prodrive boss...hah

[eytl]

Whilst the potential for Stefan GP to somehow step up has everyone here (well, some people at least) licking their lips, can I point out an important angle ...

If Campos Meta does not eventuate, we will be thwarted from seeing Adrian Campos become the first profiled reject driver become team owner of a (potentially) reject team.

[TomWazzleshaw]

If Campos Meta does not eventuate, we will be thwarted from seeing Adrian Campos become the first profiled reject driver become team owner of a (almost certain) reject team.

There. Fixed

[Cynon]

Whilst the potential for Stefan GP to somehow step up has everyone here (well, some people at least) licking their lips, can I point out an important angle ...

If Campos Meta does not eventuate, we will be thwarted from seeing Adrian Campos become the first profiled reject driver become team owner of a (potentially) reject team.

I think something is telling me that Campos wasn't able to sign Vitaly Petrov or Pastor Maldonado.

[mario]

Whilst the potential for Stefan GP to somehow step up has everyone here (well, some people at least) licking their lips, can I point out an important angle ...

If Campos Meta does not eventuate, we will be thwarted from seeing Adrian Campos become the first profiled reject driver become team owner of a (potentially) reject team.

I don't think that you need the caveat of 'potentially' there, if things carry on at this rate. If they do fail to make it, though, I'll feel sorry for Bruno Senna - denied a chance with what became the BGP001 thanks to the pullout of Honda, and now at risk of being denied again.

[Henrique]

Bruno Senna must be one of the most unlucky persons in the world of motorsport. First Honda and now this.

And poor Campos. Reject driver and manager

[tristan1117]

The plucky Serbian run team who's going to show up to the grid no matter what or the former reject, now racing entrepreneur Adrian Campos. Its one of those things where you want both in, from a Reject perspective.

[P_Friesacher]

The plucky Serbian run team who's going to show up to the grid no matter what or the former reject, now racing entrepreneur Adrian Campos. Its one of those things where you want both in, from a Reject perspective.

A real Reject-dilemma. And you can't even say "Well, let's hope USF1 drops out, so they both can race", because they are an even more perfect reject team.

[LukeB]

Wow, it's like Sophies Choice...

[thehemogoblin]

Wow, it's like Sophies Choice...

And it does involve us having to choose which one of our reject kids should live.

[Cynon]

Hey I got an even better idea! Let them all race! Because then you have DNQs at some circuits!

[madcat]

I'd love to see them all run, even if they were 12 sec behind or something. With no refuelling a few mobile chicanes would make racing more interesting.

[Captain Hammer]

Dallara are denying that they've stopped work or slowed down on the Campos car.

[Henrique]

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/225896/campos-we-will-survive/

[Phoenix]

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/225896/campos-we-will-survive/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tth-8wA3PdY

[mario]

As soon as I saw the words "youtube" in your reply Phoenix, I could already guess what it was going to be...
Whilst many might be doubting that they will actually survive the season (including myself), there is some positive news for them and all of the new teams, which is that the first batch of Cosworth engines are now being delivered. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80810

[Phoenix]

As soon as I saw the words "youtube" in your reply Phoenix, I could already guess what it was going to be...
Whilst many might be doubting that they will actually survive the season (including myself), there is some positive news for them and all of the new teams, which is that the first batch of Cosworth engines are now being delivered. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80810

Well, I suppose I'm highly predictable...
They won't use much those Cossies if they don't have the money though.

[Yannick]

Campos have signed up for the series under the conditions of the budget cap which was pretty much abandoned soon after they had been given the go. Hence, it is not surprising that they would be struggling for finance at some point. But with just 3 new teams entering at the time, they must have believed there will be sponsors willing to spend. No way they could have prognosticated that by January of 2010, there would be another 5 new team entities / identities in the sport that did not enter under the budget cap, but had better chances of planning their business side correctly - and would therefore eat up the remaining companies from the sponsorship "market": Fondmetal Team Malaysia, Virgin Grand Prix, BMW-Sauber-Ferrari, Petronas Mercedes GP, GenII-Renault. The only team of those 5 that comes close to a privateer status like that of Campos is BMW-Sauber-Ferrari, even though their car is basically next year's BMW. And let's not forget Stefan GP with their Toyota built charger who are waiting in the wings for one of the entered teams to disappear.

So what's a real privateer team like Campos to do? Merge with USF1?

[karsten]

talking about cosworth, i'm realy wondering how their engines will perform next year... everytime i think of cosworth i remember the good aerodinamics and chassis of minardi wasted by their engine....