2015 Silly Season Thread

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 02 Aug 2014, 17:50

Anyone have 3 million Euros to make this talented ex-GP3 driver the next Ma Qinghua?

http://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/1565231/adderly-fong-offered-f1-reserve-seat-huge-cost

watka · Post by **watka** » 04 Aug 2014, 12:28

I have 6p, a button and a bus timetable. That's a start isn't it?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Aug 2014, 18:55

Were the whole realm of nature mine, that were an offering far too small!

Post by **Ataxia** » 04 Aug 2014, 21:47

One of the sillier silly season stories; according to a Dutch newspaper, Max Verstappen is to drive for Toro Rosso next season...despite signing a young driver contract with Mercedes.

In other news, pigs have discovered space travel...

The Dutch Bear · Post by **The Dutch Bear** » 05 Aug 2014, 09:46

Ataxia wrote:One of the sillier silly season stories; according to a Dutch newspaper, Max Verstappen is to drive for Toro Rosso next season...despite signing a young driver contract with Mercedes.

In other news, pigs have discovered space travel...

Well the newspaper in question De Telegraaf is known for overenthusiasm. Jos Verstappen wants to bring Max slowly, given his career was hurt by immediately jumping into a race seat at Benetton. Although don't be surprised if Max becomes a test driver somewhere.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 06 Aug 2014, 18:43

The Dutch Bear wrote:
Ataxia wrote:One of the sillier silly season stories; according to a Dutch newspaper, Max Verstappen is to drive for Toro Rosso next season...despite signing a young driver contract with Mercedes.

In other news, pigs have discovered space travel...
Well the newspaper in question De Telegraaf is known for overenthusiasm. Jos Verstappen wants to bring Max slowly, given his career was hurt by immediately jumping into a race seat at Benetton. Although don't be surprised if Max becomes a test driver somewhere.

By test driver... you mean Friday practice driver, right?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Aug 2014, 19:20

Cynon wrote:By test driver... you mean Friday practice driver, right?

And just how many test/reserve drivers get that chance? I'll bet Simona won't get that chance at Sauber this year, despite the amount of press coverage and forum debate that was generated when Susie Wolff tested the Williams recently...

Post by **mario** » 06 Aug 2014, 20:23

The Dutch Bear wrote:
Ataxia wrote:One of the sillier silly season stories; according to a Dutch newspaper, Max Verstappen is to drive for Toro Rosso next season...despite signing a young driver contract with Mercedes.

In other news, pigs have discovered space travel...
Well the newspaper in question De Telegraaf is known for overenthusiasm. Jos Verstappen wants to bring Max slowly, given his career was hurt by immediately jumping into a race seat at Benetton. Although don't be surprised if Max becomes a test driver somewhere.

Reading through the article, it does sound as if they are "optimistic" with their claims that Max would be driving in F1 for 2015. That said, there is perhaps a grain of truth nestled within the article, in as much as it is possible that Max's performance may have attracted the attention of Red Bull and may have sparked a possible tussle between themselves and Mercedes.

Realistically, though, given he is only turning 17 later this year, I think that he can afford to take a little longer before trying to step up into F1 - he could easily afford to spend a second year in Formula 3 and push for the title in his second season given that Ocon, who leads the championship, should be ahead of him given that Ocon has spent two years in Formula Renault 2.0, where the cars are not dissimilar in terms of performance to a Formula 3 car.
If he had a second Formula 3 season and took the title, then he could look at something like Formula Renault 3.5 or GP2 (the former is perhaps more likely if he were to switch to Red Bull's Young Driver program, since they seem to prefer FR3.5 over GP2) after that; that'd help round out his experience and then, with that preparation, F1 might be more of a realistic proposition if he can maintain a solid level of competitiveness.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 06 Aug 2014, 20:56

dr-baker wrote:
Cynon wrote:By test driver... you mean Friday practice driver, right?

And just how many test/reserve drivers get that chance? I'll bet Simona won't get that chance at Sauber this year, despite the amount of press coverage and forum debate that was generated when Susie Wolff tested the Williams recently...

Point taken. But it seems to happen quite a bit in the back half of the grid... aka the half of the grid this forum cares about. Makes you wonder what races... and how many.

Wolff was fast in the Williams. Simona might get an outing in Austin, but beyond that I doubt it. I will be a bit annoyed if she skips out on running the number 78...

Red Bull sems to have a lot of young drivers these days... Sainz, Lynn, probably someone else I'm forgetting... makes you wonder where they will all go?

I'm on my phone at the moment, so as a result this post might be a little disjuncted. Apologies.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 06 Aug 2014, 21:08

Cynon wrote:Simona might get an outing in Austin, but beyond that I doubt it. I will be a bit annoyed if she skips out on running the number 78...

I think test numbers are down to the discretion of the team, unfortunately...

Red Bull sems to have a lot of young drivers these days... Sainz, Lynn, probably someone else I'm forgetting... makes you wonder where they will all go?

The third one is Gasly, and that's all they have now. They've downsized quite a bit, but I'd say Sainz is looking at getting into Vergne's seat for 2015, whereas I think Lynn and Gasly could both use another year in feeder series before moving to F1.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 06 Aug 2014, 21:55

Ataxia wrote:One of the sillier silly season stories; according to a Dutch newspaper, Max Verstappen is to drive for Toro Rosso next season...despite signing a young driver contract with Mercedes.

In other news, pigs have discovered space travel...

Vettel was the BMW test driver in 2007 season (and made his debut in that year), despite being part of red bull young driver program.

So, this rumor isn't that silly.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 06 Aug 2014, 23:41

Dj_bereta wrote:
Ataxia wrote:One of the sillier silly season stories; according to a Dutch newspaper, Max Verstappen is to drive for Toro Rosso next season...despite signing a young driver contract with Mercedes.

In other news, pigs have discovered space travel...

Vettel was the BMW test driver in 2007 season (and made his debut in that year), despite being part of red bull young driver program.

So, this rumor isn't that silly.

Vettel was on loan to BMW at the time, I believe. And this is back when Red Bull were firmly stuck in the midfield.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 08 Aug 2014, 12:42

Post by **Londoner** » 08 Aug 2014, 19:01

Our friend Ricky says Carlos Sainz Jr should do what he did and debut with a backmarker team for part of the season

Also, reading the latest issue of Autosport, Romain Grosjean says he hopes Enstone can "do a Brawn" and be back up the front end of the grid for 2015, which would seem to suggest that he'll be staying there after this season. This might not actually be a bad move, with Lotus getting Mercedes engines next season...

Post by **mario** » 08 Aug 2014, 19:14

East Londoner wrote:Our friend Ricky says Carlos Sainz Jr should do what he did and debut with a backmarker team for part of the season

Also, reading the latest issue of Autosport, Romain Grosjean says he hopes Enstone can "do a Brawn" and be back up the front end of the grid for 2015, which would seem to suggest that he'll be staying there after this season. This might not actually be a bad move, with Lotus getting Mercedes engines next season...

Provided that the team can remain afloat, I guess that next year offers them a reasonable prospect to cut their losses and start again - particularly since it looks like they have probably been hurt the most by the recent ban on interconnected suspension systems, which they were the first to introduce and used most extensively by them.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 08 Aug 2014, 21:04

Simtek wrote:Anyone have 3 million Euros to make this talented ex-GP3 driver the next Ma Qinghua? http://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/1565231/adderly-fong-offered-f1-reserve-seat-huge-cost

I thought it was Ho-Pin Tung who won Chinese F1 Idol *insert the appropriate fanfare here!* ?

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 09 Aug 2014, 00:08

East Londoner wrote:Our friend Ricky says Carlos Sainz Jr should do what he did and debut with a backmarker team for part of the season

Also, reading the latest issue of Autosport, Romain Grosjean says he hopes Enstone can "do a Brawn" and be back up the front end of the grid for 2015, which would seem to suggest that he'll be staying there after this season. This might not actually be a bad move, with Lotus getting Mercedes engines next season...

'Do a Brawn' So with different owners?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Aug 2014, 07:58

East Londoner wrote:Our friend Ricky says Carlos Sainz Jr should do what he did and debut with a backmarker team for part of the season

Caterham should be fine with him - on performance, Ericsson really has nothing on Kobayashi, and Kamui's experienced enough to give Carlos some help in the beginning. The team would gladly grab the Red Bull cash. Sauber wouldn't take him up I believe; and Marussia is just fine at the moment.

Post by **mario** » 09 Aug 2014, 20:50

Shizuka wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Our friend Ricky says Carlos Sainz Jr should do what he did and debut with a backmarker team for part of the season

Caterham should be fine with him - on performance, Ericsson really has nothing on Kobayashi, and Kamui's experienced enough to give Carlos some help in the beginning. The team would gladly grab the Red Bull cash. Sauber wouldn't take him up I believe; and Marussia is just fine at the moment.

I could see Sauber taking him on if enough cash was offered to them (it works for Gutierrez...), but I am not sure that Sauber really would be that good a team to learn the ropes at for this year. The team seems somewhat lost this season compared to what they achieved in the past, in part due tot he whittling away of technical staff to other teams, whilst I'm not really sure that I can see either Gutierrez or Sutil acting as a mentor to an up and coming driver. As for Marussia, I can potentially see the team acting to develop ties between themselves and Ferrari by offering seats to other drivers from Ferrari's young driver program - Raffaele Marciello has had a tough season in GP2, but he did show promise in the European Formula 3 series and would be a potential candidate if Ferrari wanted to move a driver up into Marussia.

Therefore, I agree that Caterham would make some sense given the historical technological ties between themselves and Red Bull, and I agree that Kobayashi might make a better mentor (he was, after all, a test driver for Toyota, which would indicate that he probably provides reasonably good technical feedback to the team). However, I can see Red Bull biding their time for a little longer so they can eventually move him straight into Toro Rosso given that would give them greater control over his development path - furthermore, they might be wary about getting too close to Caterham if the legal fight between Caterham and the sacked members of staff becomes rather messy.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 11 Aug 2014, 07:08

I've just been reading that Rossi has been having talks with Gene Haas about joining his merry band. I know it's for 2016 but we have no thread yet. Please nobody start a thread for 2016. Anyway, I know sharing nationalities could be a good incentive but I wonder if this is enough to make it the right move for Alex?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Aug 2014, 10:15

CoopsII wrote:I've just been reading that Rossi has been having talks with Gene Haas about joining his merry band. I know it's for 2016 but we have no thread yet. Please nobody start a thread for 2016. Anyway, I know sharing nationalities could be a good incentive but I wonder if this is enough to make it the right move for Alex?

I suspect at this rate that it might be his only way into F1, so from that perspective yes. But I've never thought Rossi was going to cut it in F1 on merit - though he may prove me wrong.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 11 Aug 2014, 11:27

It would be hilarious (but unlikely) if Max Verstappen somehow ended up replacing Kevin Magnussen during a season, since Max's father replaced Kevin's father at Stewart in 1998 (coincidentally the first year I watched F1, and only after/because Jos got that seat).

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 13 Aug 2014, 10:51

Aaaaaand Max got signed to RBJ:

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 14 Aug 2014, 10:32

CoopsII wrote:I've just been reading that Rossi has been having talks with Gene Haas about joining his merry band. I know it's for 2016 but we have no thread yet. Please nobody start a thread for 2016. Anyway, I know sharing nationalities could be a good incentive but I wonder if this is enough to make it the right move for Alex?

If he does GP2 in 2015, I think it could be a good move for both parties, unless he is miles off the pace. Haas would probably want a more experienced driver as #1. Of course, there's every chance a pay driver will get one of the swats, although the Ferrari link means I wouldn't rule out Raffaele Marciello.

As for Forza Rossa, if they're in the 2016 season, Sutil, with the Kolles link could sign for them.

watka · Post by **watka** » 14 Aug 2014, 12:28

Shizuka wrote:Aaaaaand Max got signed to RBJ:

Looks like the interrogation tactics by Helmut Marko have worked out for Red Bull. He's probably been given assurances for support should his progress slow and also been gently pointed to look at what's happened to Robin Frijns.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 14 Aug 2014, 20:11

watka wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Aaaaaand Max got signed to RBJ:

Looks like the interrogation tactics by Helmut Marko have worked out for Red Bull. He's probably been given assurances for support should his progress slow and also been gently pointed to look at what's happened to Robin Frijns.

Not just that, but I'm led to understand Max's main alternative was Mercedes. Their idea of a junior programe has been laughable for many years; directing everyone via a tin-top series, just to stack up their works cars without having to pay for more drivers. It didn't work out well for di Resta or Albers, and guys like Paffett, Green, Spengler, Wickens and Merhi were never able to progress beyond DTM. After two years, Merhi sensibly realised his career was going nowhere staying with Mercedes and abandoned ship for FR3.5, which has worked out well. Perhaps guys like Paffett, Green, et al simply didn't have the finances to continue in single seaters, but when someone actually has a choice between being sent directly to a DTM, or to progress their single seater career through FR3.5, the choice is really a no-brainer.

If you have the finances without any doubts, it's probably best to stay outside these driver programmes, but if more financial assistance is going to become necessary, there are far worse choices a young driver can make than sign up with Red Bull's much maligned Junior Team. I really struggle to see a better driver development programme, aside from McLaren perhaps.

Post by **mario** » 15 Aug 2014, 22:06

Biscione wrote:
watka wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Aaaaaand Max got signed to RBJ:

Looks like the interrogation tactics by Helmut Marko have worked out for Red Bull. He's probably been given assurances for support should his progress slow and also been gently pointed to look at what's happened to Robin Frijns.

Not just that, but I'm led to understand Max's main alternative was Mercedes. Their idea of a junior programe has been laughable for many years; directing everyone via a tin-top series, just to stack up their works cars without having to pay for more drivers. It didn't work out well for di Resta or Albers, and guys like Paffett, Green, Spengler, Wickens and Merhi were never able to progress beyond DTM. After two years, Merhi sensibly realised his career was going nowhere staying with Mercedes and abandoned ship for FR3.5, which has worked out well. Perhaps guys like Paffett, Green, et al simply didn't have the finances to continue in single seaters, but when someone actually has a choice between being sent directly to a DTM, or to progress their single seater career through FR3.5, the choice is really a no-brainer.

If you have the finances without any doubts, it's probably best to stay outside these driver programmes, but if more financial assistance is going to become necessary, there are far worse choices a young driver can make than sign up with Red Bull's much maligned Junior Team. I really struggle to see a better driver development programme, aside from McLaren perhaps.

The Red Bull Junior Team is something of a double edged sword though (remember Frijns's comments about them working the drivers like dogs, as he put it). Red Bull push their drivers through open wheeled series, but there has been the criticism that they are sometimes too quick to push drivers up the ranks without letting them develop their abilities, so it can sometimes be detrimental to the development of a driver.

To a certain extent, it's also worth noting that some Mercedes backed drivers have benefited from that association - you might say that it didn't work well for di Resta, but I'd argue that perhaps it did to some extent given that Mercedes were reportedly involved in placing di Resta at Force India.
Similarly, there are signs that Mercedes might have also intervened in the case of Juncadella (who is, a touch ironically, a former Red Bull Junior Team driver who was dumped despite two pretty solid seasons in Formula BMW), both for his test with Williams and for his current role as a test driver at Force India.

After all, Red Bull currently has one luxury that no other team has right now, which is a junior team of their own where they can afford to try out new drivers with no real consequences. In fact, they have had the luxury of having a network of established junior racing teams from which they could work from thanks to Horner's Arden International outfit (his promotion to F1 being on the back of his success in junior series), plus their relationship with Carlin as an existing sponsor. Mercedes, by contrast, doesn't really have any connections with any outfits in any junior series save its basic role as an engine supplier in Formula 3, with DTM being the only real racing series where they have traditionally had a strong presence (hence a tendency to direct drivers towards that).

Part of the issue also seems to stem with their connection with McLaren - McLaren tended to cut Mercedes out of their Young Driver program and is known for having rejected requests from Mercedes for certain drivers. It's only now that the ties with McLaren are loosening and Force India has agreed to a deepening of ties with Mercedes that now they might have the chance of promoting the interests of their up and coming drivers within F1 with a team other than McLaren.

OsellaFA1L · Post by **OsellaFA1L** » 17 Aug 2014, 08:45

Does Max Verstappen have any personal sponsorship?

Post by **Londoner** » 18 Aug 2014, 18:55

Max Verstappen is...taking JEV's Toro Rosso seat?!

If this is legit, well, yeah. I'm speechless. What happens to Sainz Jr and Lynn?

Will Buxton's take on things

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:21

Max Verstappen isn't even 17 yet - and won't be until September 30. This is the stupidest decision possible by all parties.

Before anyone brings up Kimi Raikkonen, Verstappen hasn't even set Euro F3 on fire like Raikkonen did - Raikkonen crushed everyone in Formula Renault. Verstappen is 77 points out of the lead in Euro F3 with 6 races remaining.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:28

Salamander wrote:Max Verstappen isn't even 17 yet - and won't be until September 30. This is the stupidest decision possible by all parties.

Before anyone brings up Kimi Raikkonen, Verstappen hasn't even set Euro F3 on fire like Raikkonen did - Raikkonen crushed everyone in Formula Renault. Verstappen is 77 points out of the lead in Euro F3 with 6 races remaining.

I fear a situation similar to Esteban Tuero. Tuero never set the world alight either yet was pushed up the rankings too quickly. Difference is Tuero was pushed by his family here Verstappen is by RBR.

As a more experienced member what do you see happening Salamander?

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:35

And meanwhile, according to Autosport, Andre Lotterer may be replacing Kamui Kobaiyashi.

Post by **Ataxia** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:41

What on EARTH are Toro Rosso doing? So you've got Carlos Sainz Jr who's winning FR3.5 at a canter, Pierre Gasly who's 3rd in the same championship in his first season, and Alex Lynn who's ripping GP3 apart. It's not only common sense, but common etiquette to select one of those three.

Instead, they've pretty much told their own driver development squad to go f*ck itself and will instead stick some 17-year-old in they picked up a couple of weeks ago. Now, that's forgivable if he's completely and utterly amazing. Oh, wait? He's not even WINNING F3?

I don't even know what the thought process is here. Sainz Jr has experience of F1 machinery, Gasly's a Ghost type and so will be unaffected by physical moves, and Lynn's the option if they wanted to try The Kvyat Strategy V2.0. Max Verstappen hasn't even been out of karts for a year.

IF, just IF (which, as a certain motormouth commentator is at liberty to tell us, is F1 backwards) Verstappen manages to adapt in record time, then it would appear to be a masterstroke. However, the implications if it did work out would be a catastrophe for the lower feeder series. In the early 2000s where Button and Raikkonen made it more fashionable to pluck drivers from lower down it hastened the end of F3000. It might trigger a similar fate for GP2.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:43

East Londoner wrote:Max Verstappen is...taking JEV's Toro Rosso seat?!

If this is legit, well, yeah. I'm speechless. What happens to Sainz Jr and Lynn?

Will Buxton's take on things

It's harsh on JEV, (unless he has something else lined up &/or I've missed it). But then they did the same to Buemi & The Saurus without any noticeable improvement in team performance.

http://www.redbull.com/en/motorsports/f ... nouncement

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:46

My reaction to this: What the actual f***?!?!?!?!?!?! I was expecting Sainz. Once again Toro Rosso chooses an unexpected package.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 18 Aug 2014, 19:50

It seems Verstappen's move is for 2015, but this leaves JEV in an uncomfortable position for the rest of 2014 doesn't it? Effectively ditched by Red Bull, with I suspect little chance of another drive elsewhere unless he has a mattress stuffed with cash he's told no-one about. Could be the end for him I think. Hardly the sort of situation you'd look to for motivation is it? Feel sorry for the poor guy.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Aug 2014, 20:02

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
Salamander wrote:Max Verstappen isn't even 17 yet - and won't be until September 30. This is the stupidest decision possible by all parties.

Before anyone brings up Kimi Raikkonen, Verstappen hasn't even set Euro F3 on fire like Raikkonen did - Raikkonen crushed everyone in Formula Renault. Verstappen is 77 points out of the lead in Euro F3 with 6 races remaining.

I fear a situation similar to Esteban Tuero. Tuero never set the world alight either yet was pushed up the rankings too quickly. Difference is Tuero was pushed by his family here Verstappen is by RBR.

As a more experienced member what do you see happening Salamander?

I don't see how being a more experienced member lends me any extra credence, but for what it's worth, I think Max Verstappen is a definite potential World Champion-level talent. I don't buy all the "2nd-coming of Schumacher/Prost/Senna/Fangio/Whoever else takes your fancy" uber-hype nonsense that sprouts up seemingly everywhere when he is being discussed. He's doing very well in Euro F3, let's not dimiss that, but there is no reason at all whatsoever to promote him ahead of Sainz, who was praised to the skies after last year's Young Driver Test, or Lynn, who is following directly in Kvyat's footsteps.

It's always hard to make a prediction in a situation like this - drivers who start out exceedingly young have been very hit and miss. I think Verstappen's career path most mirrors Mike Thackwell's at this point. I just don't see making a debut at 17 years old turning out well at all.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 18 Aug 2014, 20:07

When Taki Inoue was 16 years old, wanking all the time like a monkey.....

But in all seriousness, I don't think it's a good idea. Helmut Marko's hammer is at it again, but this time making Sainz Jr.'s, Lynn's and Ghasly's performance utterly useless at the same time.
Helmut, you have three drivers higher up in the ranks, two of them is delivering results, why not go for one of them, giving Max one more year?

I'm sorry, but I just don't get it...

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 18 Aug 2014, 20:12

Salamander wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
Salamander wrote:Max Verstappen isn't even 17 yet - and won't be until September 30. This is the stupidest decision possible by all parties.

Before anyone brings up Kimi Raikkonen, Verstappen hasn't even set Euro F3 on fire like Raikkonen did - Raikkonen crushed everyone in Formula Renault. Verstappen is 77 points out of the lead in Euro F3 with 6 races remaining.

I fear a situation similar to Esteban Tuero. Tuero never set the world alight either yet was pushed up the rankings too quickly. Difference is Tuero was pushed by his family here Verstappen is by RBR.

As a more experienced member what do you see happening Salamander?

I don't see how being a more experienced member lends me any extra credence,

Ok I'll rephrase that: Someone who can explain it better than me

Anyway where does this leave JEV? Does he put in some more Hungary-type performances that make people sit up or does he descend into a slumber and end up a permanent F1 discard?

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 18 Aug 2014, 20:14

The cynical side of me thinks this is some FIA ploy to "liven up the show" with a bunch of totally out of their depth rookies