Rob Dylan wrote:Silly question: what's happening to the forum?
Years upon years of inane posting is finally taking its toll on the forum servers.
So is that the reason why the main website is down? I guess a forum backup is necessary and putting a huge number of old threads into some sort of archive status. From visiting other, long-standing forums, I know such a thing exists. But I have no idea how to get large parts of a forum into that elusive archive state. Sorry, guys.
"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn. "You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
Rob Dylan wrote:Silly question: what's happening to the forum?
Years upon years of inane posting is finally taking its toll on the forum servers.
On that note, Rob, I would like to congratulate you on your 69th post!
If anything will leave a lasting impression on me from this forum, it will be that post! I can only thank you
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
I swear, those first few notes remind me of the Persuaders theme.
That is the theme tune to Steve Wright's Sunday Love Songs on BBC Radio 2...
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
For my ROTY Podium I'm not sure who'd get third and second yet, although it would probably be either Sauber, Raikkonen, Lotus, or the FIA. However, the undisputed Reject of the Year for the 2014 Formula 1 season is *insert drum roll*:
CATERHAM F1 TEAM: A crap car, absurd management antics, financial chaos, serious mistreatment of one of their drivers, sound familiar?
James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
While Kimi and Vettel deserve nods for being rubbish this year, and the FIA really should take it with double points, V6s and high weight limits ruining the show, I must go with the obvious choice:
Sauber. Crap car, pay drivers, and a team boss who is frankly in over her head leads to being regulorly beaten by Marussia and even on occasion Catheram. That they will claim 9th in the WCC solely by surviving is beyond sad.
Professional Historian/Retired Drag Racer/Whiskey Enthusiast
"He makes the move on the outside, and knowing George as we do, he's probably on the radio right now telling the team how great he is." - James Hinchcliffe on George Russell
From "politics has nothing to do with sport" and then shaking hands with Vladimir Putin to his "we'd be better off without them" statements over the finance struggles of Sauber/Lotus/Caterham/Marussia, he has been more infuriating than ever.
I've decided to change my ROTY nominations. Third place is undecided, but Caterham are moved to second, to make room for the Reject of the Year (although ideally Reject of all Eternity) who is *insert drum roll*
Bernard Charles Ecclestone: My God has he been a bathplugging idiot all year.
James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
You know what? After the latest shambles regarding Caterham and Marrusia, I think I'm going to nominate the state of F1 itself. Particularly if the championship is decided by the double points rule and they actually go through with the standing restarts next year.
I'm going to nominate the apparent lack of FREEDOM OF SPEECH™ we now have.
I will attempt to get around this censorship by trying the Brian Butterfield method of overly-descriptive nouns. Thank you, Small FORMULA 1™ Commercial Rights Man!
Mitch Hedberg wrote:I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Man, you really like Tide...
I nominate FOM, too long they have been choking F1. They need to adapt or die and I don't care if they take their stinking sport with it. If they don't want their investors to see this when they search F1, than make it better, don't censor.
Right. As tempting as it is to nominate some drivers for being a bit crap, or some teams for being extremely slow, I'll go for a general nomination. For me, Reject of the Year for 2014 can only be...
Every single aspect, outsider and insider of Formula One, except the drivers
Think about it.
The FIA, this season, have shown a massive disregard of what every rational fan wants, and when they have listened, they've heard our complaints in the worst possible ways. And even then, they've mostly only replied to the casual fans who are usually the ones who never know what they want and will complain whatever happens, ie. the worst possible people to go to for advice. But more on that later... Instead, they have managed to make the sport all the more artificial in attempts to pander to the masses who weren't likely to stay tuned anyways, seeing as they are mostly the type of people who would change the channel because "the engine's not loud enough, durr". The financial climate caused by constant major rule changes and continuous expansion have caused the potential demise of two, maybe three or even four teams.
There was also the usual reluctance to embrace (and I hate to use this word) modern technology and media. Adding a hashtag to the on-screen timing and CGI "Think before you drive" messages on the track is either not enough or just plainly not the right thing. At the moment, Formula One needs more interaction with its current and potential fanbase and more ways of discovering content. Adding pay TV to regular TV is not exactly expanding into new markets, and FOM needs to realise this. And fast.
The other way the FIA have managed to make this season less and less enjoyable is by changing the rulebook. Apart from the penalty point system and 5-second stop-go penalties, I can't think of a single rule change that has been noticeably good, and even the penalty point system is a shambles which is never consistently applied. Their attempts at lowering the car's noses only ended up creating monstrous appendages (which thankfully should be banned next year) and the double-points rule never even had a real backing in the fan base in the first place. It seems that this rule was one of Bernie's usual extreme propositions he uses to negociate an intermediate solution that he secretly wanted all along, only this time, the FIA accepted it the first time.
Speaking of the devil, Bernard Charles Ecclestone has always been known for his controversial remarks and comments, and has even actively maintained his reputation for it, but he has really outdone himself this season. Defending the most extreme rule changes and claiming they didn't go far enough, openly encouraging destructive rivalries between drivers, shutting down drivers he's supported in the past and showing absolutely no sympathy for the smaller teams which make up the life and soul of this sport we love so much, or at least used to. Remember when he used to stand up for the slower guys? All it took was three seasons without clear backmarkers for that spirit to disappear.
It also doesn't help that each of these comments is wildly speculated upon by the journalists who cover the sport. This may not be the case, but I feel like this season has spawned more opinion pieces than any other before it, some of which I agree with, others not. It's not the content I have a problem with, but rather the fact that they constantly feel the need to open the proverbial cans of worms, of which there were many this year. When they weren't writing "proper" opinion pieces, quite a few reporters tended to post certain quotes by certain people in a certain way (I'm looking in your general direction, Mercedes-Benz). The fact that these were published in this way in the first place was certainly cringe-worthy. But then, you scrolled down and read the comments...
The fanbase has always been extremely vocal in Formula One, some sections more so than others, but this season, it's really taken off. Once in a while, I see well-thought-out arguments that make me regain confidence in the people I watch the races with, but then, I get properly demoralised by the casual fanbase. Not only was there plentiful bitching about every rule that changed and every rule that hadn't, this pointless crying generally came from the people who asked for the rule changes in the first place. Lewis Hamilton fans formed a large chunk of these people, but Rosberg fans were equally vocal and equally annoying. The "rivalry" between the two caused many a pointless internet argument and the creation of derogatory Facebook pages on either side, as well as inflammatory tweets. Both drivers knew better of course, but the fans didn't pay attention. To a lesser extent, Vettel fans were also a major presence, usually claiming that he "needed to adapt" and that he "would be beating Ricciardo in no time". On the flip side, many people who were quite openly anti-Vettel flooded the same comments sections with less-than-articulate posts about Sebastian, which were quite uncalled for, and certainly less than last season, when at least his perceived smugness caused be cause for annoyance. Vettel himself, for once, was a realist and stayed modest, which I admired.
These comments by the drivers weren't helped by their teams, either. Mercedes were a major part of the fabricated controversy surrounding this season with careless and/or deliberate comments favouring one driver or the other, and apparently encouraged the often vitriolic reactions from fans on either side. Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff were the major culprits, and in my opinion, have shown a tremendous lack of management skills. Red Bull have also been quite hopeless from a PR perspective, seemingly spending a majority of the season trying to tear Vettel to shreds in front of the cameras, then removing all support he had within the team as soon as he announced his departure. To a lesser extent, Ferrari also seemed to mishandle their staff, especially on a management level and on a Fernando Alonso level. Almost every other team, to a lesser extent, deserves some flak this season. Williams and Toro Rosso for their chronic lack of strategic nous, Lotus and Sauber for simply wasting their money and Caterham for ill-advised design choices and financial management. Marussia, despite financial issues, were at least endearing and hard-trying, while Force India and McLaren can only be faulted for not being quite as fast as before.
Thus exempted: the drivers, the racing and Pirelli.
Quoth Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."
kevinbotz wrote:Cantonese is a completely nonsensical f*cking alien language masquerading as some grossly bastardised form of Chinese
Gonzo wrote:Wasn't there some sort of communisim in the East part of Germany?
tommykl wrote:Right. As tempting as it is to nominate some drivers for being a bit crap, or some teams for being extremely slow, I'll go for a general nomination. For me, Reject of the Year for 2014 can only be...
Every single aspect, outsider and insider of Formula One, except the drivers
Think about it.
The FIA, this season, have shown a massive disregard of what every rational fan wants, and when they have listened, they've heard our complaints in the worst possible ways. And even then, they've mostly only replied to the casual fans who are usually the ones who never know what they want and will complain whatever happens, ie. the worst possible people to go to for advice. But more on that later... Instead, they have managed to make the sport all the more artificial in attempts to pander to the masses who weren't likely to stay tuned anyways, seeing as they are mostly the type of people who would change the channel because "the engine's not loud enough, durr". The financial climate caused by constant major rule changes and continuous expansion have caused the potential demise of two, maybe three or even four teams.
There was also the usual reluctance to embrace (and I hate to use this word) modern technology and media. Adding a hashtag to the on-screen timing and CGI "Think before you drive" messages on the track is either not enough or just plainly not the right thing. At the moment, Formula One needs more interaction with its current and potential fanbase and more ways of discovering content. Adding pay TV to regular TV is not exactly expanding into new markets, and FOM needs to realise this. And fast.
The other way the FIA have managed to make this season less and less enjoyable is by changing the rulebook. Apart from the penalty point system and 5-second stop-go penalties, I can't think of a single rule change that has been noticeably good, and even the penalty point system is a shambles which is never consistently applied. Their attempts at lowering the car's noses only ended up creating monstrous appendages (which thankfully should be banned next year) and the double-points rule never even had a real backing in the fan base in the first place. It seems that this rule was one of Bernie's usual extreme propositions he uses to negociate an intermediate solution that he secretly wanted all along, only this time, the FIA accepted it the first time.
Speaking of the devil, Bernard Charles Ecclestone has always been known for his controversial remarks and comments, and has even actively maintained his reputation for it, but he has really outdone himself this season. Defending the most extreme rule changes and claiming they didn't go far enough, openly encouraging destructive rivalries between drivers, shutting down drivers he's supported in the past and showing absolutely no sympathy for the smaller teams which make up the life and soul of this sport we love so much, or at least used to. Remember when he used to stand up for the slower guys? All it took was three seasons without clear backmarkers for that spirit to disappear.
It also doesn't help that each of these comments is wildly speculated upon by the journalists who cover the sport. This may not be the case, but I feel like this season has spawned more opinion pieces than any other before it, some of which I agree with, others not. It's not the content I have a problem with, but rather the fact that they constantly feel the need to open the proverbial cans of worms, of which there were many this year. When they weren't writing "proper" opinion pieces, quite a few reporters tended to post certain quotes by certain people in a certain way (I'm looking in your general direction, Mercedes-Benz). The fact that these were published in this way in the first place was certainly cringe-worthy. But then, you scrolled down and read the comments...
The fanbase has always been extremely vocal in Formula One, some sections more so than others, but this season, it's really taken off. Once in a while, I see well-thought-out arguments that make me regain confidence in the people I watch the races with, but then, I get properly demoralised by the casual fanbase. Not only was there plentiful bitching about every rule that changed and every rule that hadn't, this pointless crying generally came from the people who asked for the rule changes in the first place. Lewis Hamilton fans formed a large chunk of these people, but Rosberg fans were equally vocal and equally annoying. The "rivalry" between the two caused many a pointless internet argument and the creation of derogatory Facebook pages on either side, as well as inflammatory tweets. Both drivers knew better of course, but the fans didn't pay attention. To a lesser extent, Vettel fans were also a major presence, usually claiming that he "needed to adapt" and that he "would be beating Ricciardo in no time". On the flip side, many people who were quite openly anti-Vettel flooded the same comments sections with less-than-articulate posts about Sebastian, which were quite uncalled for, and certainly less than last season, when at least his perceived smugness caused be cause for annoyance. Vettel himself, for once, was a realist and stayed modest, which I admired.
These comments by the drivers weren't helped by their teams, either. Mercedes were a major part of the fabricated controversy surrounding this season with careless and/or deliberate comments favouring one driver or the other, and apparently encouraged the often vitriolic reactions from fans on either side. Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff were the major culprits, and in my opinion, have shown a tremendous lack of management skills. Red Bull have also been quite hopeless from a PR perspective, seemingly spending a majority of the season trying to tear Vettel to shreds in front of the cameras, then removing all support he had within the team as soon as he announced his departure. To a lesser extent, Ferrari also seemed to mishandle their staff, especially on a management level and on a Fernando Alonso level. Almost every other team, to a lesser extent, deserves some flak this season. Williams and Toro Rosso for their chronic lack of strategic nous, Lotus and Sauber for simply wasting their money and Caterham for ill-advised design choices and financial management. Marussia, despite financial issues, were at least endearing and hard-trying, while Force India and McLaren can only be faulted for not being quite as fast as before.
Thus exempted: the drivers, the racing and Pirelli.
Quoth Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."
That post is just so perfect in sumerising the state of F1 at the moment.
Mexicola wrote:
shinji wrote:
Mexicola wrote: I'd rather listen to a dog lick its balls. Each to their own, I guess.
Does listening to a dog licking its balls get you excited?
That's between me and my internet service provider.
One of those journalist types. 270 Tube stations in 18:42:50!
tommykl wrote:Right. As tempting as it is to nominate some drivers for being a bit crap, or some teams for being extremely slow, I'll go for a general nomination. For me, Reject of the Year for 2014 can only be...
Every single aspect, outsider and insider of Formula One, except the drivers
Think about it.
The FIA, this season, have shown a massive disregard of what every rational fan wants, and when they have listened, they've heard our complaints in the worst possible ways. And even then, they've mostly only replied to the casual fans who are usually the ones who never know what they want and will complain whatever happens, ie. the worst possible people to go to for advice. But more on that later... Instead, they have managed to make the sport all the more artificial in attempts to pander to the masses who weren't likely to stay tuned anyways, seeing as they are mostly the type of people who would change the channel because "the engine's not loud enough, durr". The financial climate caused by constant major rule changes and continuous expansion have caused the potential demise of two, maybe three or even four teams.
There was also the usual reluctance to embrace (and I hate to use this word) modern technology and media. Adding a hashtag to the on-screen timing and CGI "Think before you drive" messages on the track is either not enough or just plainly not the right thing. At the moment, Formula One needs more interaction with its current and potential fanbase and more ways of discovering content. Adding pay TV to regular TV is not exactly expanding into new markets, and FOM needs to realise this. And fast.
The other way the FIA have managed to make this season less and less enjoyable is by changing the rulebook. Apart from the penalty point system and 5-second stop-go penalties, I can't think of a single rule change that has been noticeably good, and even the penalty point system is a shambles which is never consistently applied. Their attempts at lowering the car's noses only ended up creating monstrous appendages (which thankfully should be banned next year) and the double-points rule never even had a real backing in the fan base in the first place. It seems that this rule was one of Bernie's usual extreme propositions he uses to negociate an intermediate solution that he secretly wanted all along, only this time, the FIA accepted it the first time.
Speaking of the devil, Bernard Charles Ecclestone has always been known for his controversial remarks and comments, and has even actively maintained his reputation for it, but he has really outdone himself this season. Defending the most extreme rule changes and claiming they didn't go far enough, openly encouraging destructive rivalries between drivers, shutting down drivers he's supported in the past and showing absolutely no sympathy for the smaller teams which make up the life and soul of this sport we love so much, or at least used to. Remember when he used to stand up for the slower guys? All it took was three seasons without clear backmarkers for that spirit to disappear.
It also doesn't help that each of these comments is wildly speculated upon by the journalists who cover the sport. This may not be the case, but I feel like this season has spawned more opinion pieces than any other before it, some of which I agree with, others not. It's not the content I have a problem with, but rather the fact that they constantly feel the need to open the proverbial cans of worms, of which there were many this year. When they weren't writing "proper" opinion pieces, quite a few reporters tended to post certain quotes by certain people in a certain way (I'm looking in your general direction, Mercedes-Benz). The fact that these were published in this way in the first place was certainly cringe-worthy. But then, you scrolled down and read the comments...
The fanbase has always been extremely vocal in Formula One, some sections more so than others, but this season, it's really taken off. Once in a while, I see well-thought-out arguments that make me regain confidence in the people I watch the races with, but then, I get properly demoralised by the casual fanbase. Not only was there plentiful bitching about every rule that changed and every rule that hadn't, this pointless crying generally came from the people who asked for the rule changes in the first place. Lewis Hamilton fans formed a large chunk of these people, but Rosberg fans were equally vocal and equally annoying. The "rivalry" between the two caused many a pointless internet argument and the creation of derogatory Facebook pages on either side, as well as inflammatory tweets. Both drivers knew better of course, but the fans didn't pay attention. To a lesser extent, Vettel fans were also a major presence, usually claiming that he "needed to adapt" and that he "would be beating Ricciardo in no time". On the flip side, many people who were quite openly anti-Vettel flooded the same comments sections with less-than-articulate posts about Sebastian, which were quite uncalled for, and certainly less than last season, when at least his perceived smugness caused be cause for annoyance. Vettel himself, for once, was a realist and stayed modest, which I admired.
These comments by the drivers weren't helped by their teams, either. Mercedes were a major part of the fabricated controversy surrounding this season with careless and/or deliberate comments favouring one driver or the other, and apparently encouraged the often vitriolic reactions from fans on either side. Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff were the major culprits, and in my opinion, have shown a tremendous lack of management skills. Red Bull have also been quite hopeless from a PR perspective, seemingly spending a majority of the season trying to tear Vettel to shreds in front of the cameras, then removing all support he had within the team as soon as he announced his departure. To a lesser extent, Ferrari also seemed to mishandle their staff, especially on a management level and on a Fernando Alonso level. Almost every other team, to a lesser extent, deserves some flak this season. Williams and Toro Rosso for their chronic lack of strategic nous, Lotus and Sauber for simply wasting their money and Caterham for ill-advised design choices and financial management. Marussia, despite financial issues, were at least endearing and hard-trying, while Force India and McLaren can only be faulted for not being quite as fast as before.
Thus exempted: the drivers, the racing and Pirelli.
Quoth Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."
tommykl wrote:Right. As tempting as it is to nominate some drivers for being a bit crap, or some teams for being extremely slow, I'll go for a general nomination. For me, Reject of the Year for 2014 can only be...
Every single aspect, outsider and insider of Formula One, except the drivers
Well-reasoned argument.
Quoth Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."
Well said. And that's not to mention that we spent the year learning about traumatic brain injuries and the bleak prognoses of both the statistically greatest F1 driver and a highly regarded young lad through sheer misfortune. Just a grim year all told tbh.
tommykl wrote:Right. As tempting as it is to nominate some drivers for being a bit crap, or some teams for being extremely slow, I'll go for a general nomination. For me, Reject of the Year for 2014 can only be...
Every single aspect, outsider and insider of Formula One, except the drivers
Think about it.
The FIA, this season, have shown a massive disregard of what every rational fan wants, and when they have listened, they've heard our complaints in the worst possible ways. And even then, they've mostly only replied to the casual fans who are usually the ones who never know what they want and will complain whatever happens, ie. the worst possible people to go to for advice. But more on that later... Instead, they have managed to make the sport all the more artificial in attempts to pander to the masses who weren't likely to stay tuned anyways, seeing as they are mostly the type of people who would change the channel because "the engine's not loud enough, durr". The financial climate caused by constant major rule changes and continuous expansion have caused the potential demise of two, maybe three or even four teams.
There was also the usual reluctance to embrace (and I hate to use this word) modern technology and media. Adding a hashtag to the on-screen timing and CGI "Think before you drive" messages on the track is either not enough or just plainly not the right thing. At the moment, Formula One needs more interaction with its current and potential fanbase and more ways of discovering content. Adding pay TV to regular TV is not exactly expanding into new markets, and FOM needs to realise this. And fast.
The other way the FIA have managed to make this season less and less enjoyable is by changing the rulebook. Apart from the penalty point system and 5-second stop-go penalties, I can't think of a single rule change that has been noticeably good, and even the penalty point system is a shambles which is never consistently applied. Their attempts at lowering the car's noses only ended up creating monstrous appendages (which thankfully should be banned next year) and the double-points rule never even had a real backing in the fan base in the first place. It seems that this rule was one of Bernie's usual extreme propositions he uses to negociate an intermediate solution that he secretly wanted all along, only this time, the FIA accepted it the first time.
Speaking of the devil, Bernard Charles Ecclestone has always been known for his controversial remarks and comments, and has even actively maintained his reputation for it, but he has really outdone himself this season. Defending the most extreme rule changes and claiming they didn't go far enough, openly encouraging destructive rivalries between drivers, shutting down drivers he's supported in the past and showing absolutely no sympathy for the smaller teams which make up the life and soul of this sport we love so much, or at least used to. Remember when he used to stand up for the slower guys? All it took was three seasons without clear backmarkers for that spirit to disappear.
It also doesn't help that each of these comments is wildly speculated upon by the journalists who cover the sport. This may not be the case, but I feel like this season has spawned more opinion pieces than any other before it, some of which I agree with, others not. It's not the content I have a problem with, but rather the fact that they constantly feel the need to open the proverbial cans of worms, of which there were many this year. When they weren't writing "proper" opinion pieces, quite a few reporters tended to post certain quotes by certain people in a certain way (I'm looking in your general direction, Mercedes-Benz). The fact that these were published in this way in the first place was certainly cringe-worthy. But then, you scrolled down and read the comments...
The fanbase has always been extremely vocal in Formula One, some sections more so than others, but this season, it's really taken off. Once in a while, I see well-thought-out arguments that make me regain confidence in the people I watch the races with, but then, I get properly demoralised by the casual fanbase. Not only was there plentiful bitching about every rule that changed and every rule that hadn't, this pointless crying generally came from the people who asked for the rule changes in the first place. Lewis Hamilton fans formed a large chunk of these people, but Rosberg fans were equally vocal and equally annoying. The "rivalry" between the two caused many a pointless internet argument and the creation of derogatory Facebook pages on either side, as well as inflammatory tweets. Both drivers knew better of course, but the fans didn't pay attention. To a lesser extent, Vettel fans were also a major presence, usually claiming that he "needed to adapt" and that he "would be beating Ricciardo in no time". On the flip side, many people who were quite openly anti-Vettel flooded the same comments sections with less-than-articulate posts about Sebastian, which were quite uncalled for, and certainly less than last season, when at least his perceived smugness caused be cause for annoyance. Vettel himself, for once, was a realist and stayed modest, which I admired.
These comments by the drivers weren't helped by their teams, either. Mercedes were a major part of the fabricated controversy surrounding this season with careless and/or deliberate comments favouring one driver or the other, and apparently encouraged the often vitriolic reactions from fans on either side. Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff were the major culprits, and in my opinion, have shown a tremendous lack of management skills. Red Bull have also been quite hopeless from a PR perspective, seemingly spending a majority of the season trying to tear Vettel to shreds in front of the cameras, then removing all support he had within the team as soon as he announced his departure. To a lesser extent, Ferrari also seemed to mishandle their staff, especially on a management level and on a Fernando Alonso level. Almost every other team, to a lesser extent, deserves some flak this season. Williams and Toro Rosso for their chronic lack of strategic nous, Lotus and Sauber for simply wasting their money and Caterham for ill-advised design choices and financial management. Marussia, despite financial issues, were at least endearing and hard-trying, while Force India and McLaren can only be faulted for not being quite as fast as before.
Thus exempted: the drivers, the racing and Pirelli.
Quoth Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."
I couldn't agree more with your post.
James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
I don't care what they do anymore. I hope the enforce customer cars, third cars, celebrity drivers and more. I hope they ruin it. It's a shame for the drivers because they may well look back at their careers in comparison to other drivers and blush at their involvement in the slow decline of a once great sport. Maybe the FIA do want F1 to implode so they can rebuild it in their own image.
I've just logged in to nominate the current state of F1. I see you've overtaken me about it.
If strong measures aren't introduced soon, or if they are on the line of third cars, customer cars and the like, and no serious thinking goes into the business model, this might well be the point of no return for the sport.
Mind you, I watched the Beijing Formula Electric race a few days ago, and while it wasn't breathtaking, I felt it had some potential. They already have some familiar faces for the F1 follower, which at least for me is a plus (particularly given the rejectful past of quite a few of them!). The fact that they make little to no sound means a plus for them racing in cities, opening the chance of attracting more fans.
If they manage to allow serious development, as they have promised, effectively going from customer cars to a proper constructor championship...
Go home, Bernie Ecclestone!
"There will be no other victory this year, I can tell you, more welcomed than this one" Bob Varsha, 1995 Canadian GP
I feel like this has all been bubbling under the surface until the Japanese Grand Prix. This whole year has had great racing, but it's been coupled with a huge amount of bitterness. The amount of controversy and financial ruin that's enveloped the sport this year has been unbelievable, and the horrible crash of Jules Bianchi has just brought everybody down. What was an awesome season is looking like finishing with 18 cars and a farcical double-points race nobody asked for.
Paul Stoddart put it well in Indy '05: "The FIA needs to get a grip on itself and sort this sport out before there's no f***ing sport to sort out".
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Rob Dylan wrote:Paul Stoddart put it well in Indy '05: "The FIA needs to get a grip on itself and sort this sport out before there's no f***ing sport to sort out".
Nine years ago. Nine years those words have fallen on the deafest of deaf ears.
You know what I want to do right now? Wave a magic wand and all of a sudden, F1RMGP exists in pretty much the way I had it going on the Perry McCarthy forum. Or, as it has sort of turned out, Formula E with turbo-petrol-hybrid engines. Call it GP1, call it Formula Elaborate Bluff, call it Super Formula Super Happy Fun Joy Time Rush if you like, just make it so that the small teams can not only take part, but can compete, pulling the kind of surprises out the bag of the magnitude of Stefan Johansson getting on the podium in an Onyx.
Cap the budget at a hundredth of the average across the current F1 grid, hire some drivers who cost next to nothing to run and who might not necessarily turn them into shards of shattered carbon fibre as often as Reverend Maldolan has done, allow 20 teams to take part with a pre-qualifying session on the Thursday morning, and see if the grid fills up. You never know, maybe some of the more off-the-wall events might happen, such as a women's subsidiary championship involving last year's cars so they get some more mileage, a calendar that's actually coordinated to minimise travel costs despite being a proper world series, and Tony Fernandes and Dany Bahar being locked in a cage together until they learn to work together.
And at the end of it all, maybe, just maybe, Jan Magnussen will get that championship he was looking for - while his son tries to make it in an ailing and very expensive series that lines the pockets of a scarecrow.
James Allen, on his favourite F1 engine of all time: "...the Life W12, I can't describe the noise to you, but imagine filling your dustbin with nuts and bolts, and then throwing it down the stairs, it was something akin to that!"
Rob Dylan wrote:Paul Stoddart put it well in Indy '05: "The FIA needs to get a grip on itself and sort this sport out before there's no f***ing sport to sort out".
Nine years ago. Nine years those words have fallen on the deafest of deaf ears.
Nineteen years ago was the last time F1 saw a sizable grid. 28 initially however Larousse bit the dust before the season even started and once Simtek withdrew the grid went down to 24. But the first few rounds saw 26 cars line up. And that was with 6 points paying positions...
There's lots of reasons why teams slide down and out, most of them are money and the development race is notorious enough. F1 as a whole has managed to survive and bullshit it's way to the fans and sponsors but grids as become smaller, and other entertainment, sports or sports-entertainment options find ways to attract former F1 fans and the ever disloyal casual viewer, the only people left in the end will be the ones that managed to sqeeze every last dime out of F1 before it died, and the most avid and loyal fans who will be yelling "We've bathplug told you so!" for years. There will allways be motor racing of some kind, but no reason to think that F1 as a whole, the brand of F1 or anything resembling today's F1 needs to go on forever. And if you gauge the sport by it's grid size, then it's been going to the shitter for a while now.
2010 saw 24 cars... but 6 of those were hopeless, utterly hopeless. And none of their succesors will line up in Austin. This leaves the grid with a more realistic 18 cars, and it's these 18 that can realisticaly score a point. Which means there's more races than cars in F1. And that is how the "show" is funded as well.
So if dwindling grids mean fewer contestants, and if hopeless teams resort to pay drivers just to stay on the grid, will we soon see pay teams in F1? Have we got them already? Toro Rosso wont challenge RB, Force India are dependant on Mercedes (cue conspiracies about the Canada GP), Marussia are tied with Ferrari although they dont have to qualify as a pay team since they're already stuck nowhere. Will we see F1 court Stefan GP in 2018??
No. We wont. The solution is already in place and it's just waiting for the lights to go out in the cash strapped teams such as Caterham, Marussia and possibly Sauber. Bernie may not have a heart, but he does have a mind. He is right when he says that having hopeless cars hopelessly running around is a bunch of crap and he is also right when he suggests that having more entries from already competitive teams is better than what we have now. Even if you utterly hate a move away from 2 cars teams, you got to admit that having 3-4 Ferraris is an awesome idea. I still have no clue whatsoever how the WCC points would work (WHY enter a car that DOES NOT score points?) but with more of the established, competitive cars on the grid the racing could get better and talented drivers could move into better seats.
Ecclestone is too easily blamed for everything wrong with F1, team principals and owners have managed to bathplug up and sabotage the sport for years and that's before we even consider engine makers and corporate interests. But it doesnt matter what kind of "gate" shakes up the paddock, or which classic race tracks are removed and replaced, or how many teams and cars are left running. All that matters is the number of viewers left. Once that drops significantly low, you can expect to see some changes but going by past examples, they will be halfhearted and insencere, and will first and foremost benefit the interests of those who have already invested pools of cash into F1 and are expecting any kind of return on their investment.
Fans can go piss up a rope until there's none left.
That Stoddart said that nine years ago and F1 has bumped along without getting much worse off leaves me far less inclined to believe in the doom and gloom. F1 has been about to keel over any second now for decades according to some people. It's not the first time smaller teams have gone to the wall, Bernie said something stupid, or the ghastly idea of teams running 3 cars has been bandied about and yet here we are same as ever.
With the way things are going now, we're probably gonna have a grid the size of what Champ Car had in its final days - 16 or less cars, and as CoopsII said earlier, maybe what F1 needs now is for it to hit the nadir, because unfortunately it will take that before any attempt to rebuild the sport will be undertaken by the FIA.
James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
I suggest we nuke F1 from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Murray Walker at the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix wrote:The other [Stewart] driver, who nobody's been paying attention to, because he's disappointing, is Jan Magnussen.
Rob Dylan wrote:I suggest we nuke F1 from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Wouldn't the nuke burn up entering the atmosphere? I suggest using an Ion Cannon instead!
James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
I have just read an article on Autosport (I would provide a link but have not yet learnt how to copy-and-paste links on my new mobile phone yet) AND BERNIE ECCLESTONE HAS ADMITTED THAT HE IS AT FAULT FOR THE CURRENT FINANCIAL CRISIS! Good for him that he acknowledges responsibility for what's going on. ROTY for sure for what he's done, Infinite Improbability Of The Year for him admitting liability...
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
dr-baker wrote:I have just read an article on Autosport (I would provide a link but have not yet learnt how to copy-and-paste links on my new mobile phone yet) AND BERNIE ECCLESTONE HAS ADMITTED THAT HE IS AT FAULT FOR THE CURRENT FINANCIAL CRISIS! Good for him that he acknowledges responsibility for what's going on. ROTY for sure for what he's done, Infinite Improbability Of The Year for him admitting liability...
There's a link to the article on the end of the little teams thread.
James Hunt, commentating on the 1991 German Grand Prix wrote:The Benettons looking very smart together on the track, mostly because they're both going so slowly.
dr-baker wrote:I have just read an article on Autosport (I would provide a link but have not yet learnt how to copy-and-paste links on my new mobile phone yet) AND BERNIE ECCLESTONE HAS ADMITTED THAT HE IS AT FAULT FOR THE CURRENT FINANCIAL CRISIS! Good for him that he acknowledges responsibility for what's going on. ROTY for sure for what he's done, Infinite Improbability Of The Year for him admitting liability...
There's a link to the article on the end of the little teams thread.
Thanks. I only saw that after posting here. Thank goodness it isn't 1st April, otherwise I would have thought it was an April fool!
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
tommykl wrote:Right. As tempting as it is to nominate some drivers for being a bit crap, or some teams for being extremely slow, I'll go for a general nomination. For me, Reject of the Year for 2014 can only be...
Every single aspect, outsider and insider of Formula One, except the drivers
Think about it.
The FIA, this season, have shown a massive disregard of what every rational fan wants, and when they have listened, they've heard our complaints in the worst possible ways. And even then, they've mostly only replied to the casual fans who are usually the ones who never know what they want and will complain whatever happens, ie. the worst possible people to go to for advice. But more on that later... Instead, they have managed to make the sport all the more artificial in attempts to pander to the masses who weren't likely to stay tuned anyways, seeing as they are mostly the type of people who would change the channel because "the engine's not loud enough, durr". The financial climate caused by constant major rule changes and continuous expansion have caused the potential demise of two, maybe three or even four teams.
There was also the usual reluctance to embrace (and I hate to use this word) modern technology and media. Adding a hashtag to the on-screen timing and CGI "Think before you drive" messages on the track is either not enough or just plainly not the right thing. At the moment, Formula One needs more interaction with its current and potential fanbase and more ways of discovering content. Adding pay TV to regular TV is not exactly expanding into new markets, and FOM needs to realise this. And fast.
The other way the FIA have managed to make this season less and less enjoyable is by changing the rulebook. Apart from the penalty point system and 5-second stop-go penalties, I can't think of a single rule change that has been noticeably good, and even the penalty point system is a shambles which is never consistently applied. Their attempts at lowering the car's noses only ended up creating monstrous appendages (which thankfully should be banned next year) and the double-points rule never even had a real backing in the fan base in the first place. It seems that this rule was one of Bernie's usual extreme propositions he uses to negociate an intermediate solution that he secretly wanted all along, only this time, the FIA accepted it the first time.
Speaking of the devil, Bernard Charles Ecclestone has always been known for his controversial remarks and comments, and has even actively maintained his reputation for it, but he has really outdone himself this season. Defending the most extreme rule changes and claiming they didn't go far enough, openly encouraging destructive rivalries between drivers, shutting down drivers he's supported in the past and showing absolutely no sympathy for the smaller teams which make up the life and soul of this sport we love so much, or at least used to. Remember when he used to stand up for the slower guys? All it took was three seasons without clear backmarkers for that spirit to disappear.
It also doesn't help that each of these comments is wildly speculated upon by the journalists who cover the sport. This may not be the case, but I feel like this season has spawned more opinion pieces than any other before it, some of which I agree with, others not. It's not the content I have a problem with, but rather the fact that they constantly feel the need to open the proverbial cans of worms, of which there were many this year. When they weren't writing "proper" opinion pieces, quite a few reporters tended to post certain quotes by certain people in a certain way (I'm looking in your general direction, Mercedes-Benz). The fact that these were published in this way in the first place was certainly cringe-worthy. But then, you scrolled down and read the comments...
The fanbase has always been extremely vocal in Formula One, some sections more so than others, but this season, it's really taken off. Once in a while, I see well-thought-out arguments that make me regain confidence in the people I watch the races with, but then, I get properly demoralised by the casual fanbase. Not only was there plentiful bitching about every rule that changed and every rule that hadn't, this pointless crying generally came from the people who asked for the rule changes in the first place. Lewis Hamilton fans formed a large chunk of these people, but Rosberg fans were equally vocal and equally annoying. The "rivalry" between the two caused many a pointless internet argument and the creation of derogatory Facebook pages on either side, as well as inflammatory tweets. Both drivers knew better of course, but the fans didn't pay attention. To a lesser extent, Vettel fans were also a major presence, usually claiming that he "needed to adapt" and that he "would be beating Ricciardo in no time". On the flip side, many people who were quite openly anti-Vettel flooded the same comments sections with less-than-articulate posts about Sebastian, which were quite uncalled for, and certainly less than last season, when at least his perceived smugness caused be cause for annoyance. Vettel himself, for once, was a realist and stayed modest, which I admired.
These comments by the drivers weren't helped by their teams, either. Mercedes were a major part of the fabricated controversy surrounding this season with careless and/or deliberate comments favouring one driver or the other, and apparently encouraged the often vitriolic reactions from fans on either side. Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff were the major culprits, and in my opinion, have shown a tremendous lack of management skills. Red Bull have also been quite hopeless from a PR perspective, seemingly spending a majority of the season trying to tear Vettel to shreds in front of the cameras, then removing all support he had within the team as soon as he announced his departure. To a lesser extent, Ferrari also seemed to mishandle their staff, especially on a management level and on a Fernando Alonso level. Almost every other team, to a lesser extent, deserves some flak this season. Williams and Toro Rosso for their chronic lack of strategic nous, Lotus and Sauber for simply wasting their money and Caterham for ill-advised design choices and financial management. Marussia, despite financial issues, were at least endearing and hard-trying, while Force India and McLaren can only be faulted for not being quite as fast as before.
Thus exempted: the drivers, the racing and Pirelli.
Quoth Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that."
Everyone whinges about gimmicks, but why do you think we're stuck with them? Because the teams won't support actual, meaningful change in the sport. They know that if they cut costs, they risk losing their advantage, so they oppose it. Instead, they support the introduction of things like DRS because it's a quick and easy solution that produces a desired result without needing to address any actual issues. And they know how to play with the media to get the support of the fans. Why do you think Jean Todt went off at them a few months ago? It was because they shot down the Global Cost Cap, and when he told them to go off and find their own solutions to sustainable, meaningful, long-term cost-cutting, they came back with a plan to cut back one pre-season test and save $2 million - in a sport where they have budgets of $200 million.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
. Its been fun.
