2016 Silly Season Thread

[Faustus]

Force India is hiring. Electronics, aerodynamics, simulator and software. 11 different jobs, no idea how many vacancies. I just had a call about it.

[Nuppiz]

And while we're here, let's throw Neotech, HKS and Isuzu into the ring. Who knows, they might have had a top-secret project in the works these last 20 years that'll blast the Mercs into next week...

Or, better still...



ERNESTO VITA RETURNS AND WILL CONQUER THE WORLD.

My money is on the other W12 design of the era: Moteurs Guy Nègre.

[Aguaman]

Force India is hiring. Electronics, aerodynamics, simulator and software. 11 different jobs, no idea how many vacancies. I just had a call about it.

I wish they were looking for someone in business.

Also apparently Mercedes board said no to supplying RBR with Merc engines. That leaves Ferrari as a last chance unless someone out of the blue comes into play

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Force India is hiring. Electronics, aerodynamics, simulator and software. 11 different jobs, no idea how many vacancies. I just had a call about it.

I wish they were looking for someone in business.

Also apparently Mercedes board said no to supplying RBR with Merc engines. That leaves Ferrari as a last chance unless someone out of the blue comes into play

I wonder if Red Bull were to somehow end up without an engine deal next season, would they be stuck with their current Renault power unit, only rebranded à la Williams-Mecachrome or Benetton-Playlife?

[Londoner]

Here's a possibility that we were discussing in the chatroom this morning. What if Red Bull announce a tie-up with...Cosworth.

Think about it, Cosworth were considering developing an engine to the new regulations until mid-2013, when Marussia announced their Ferrari deal. The expertise is in place, and it wouldn't be past the bounds of possibility that Red Bull could send large sums of money into Cosworth's coffers to develop an engine for 2016. Indeed, it might also be possible that Red Bull could take Cosworth over entirely, therefore freeing themselves from the restrictions and demands of the other manufacturers.

[Spectoremg]

Very interesting stuff about possible new engine suppliers but let's remember that the mighty Honda have fallen on their ar$e$ this year. What chances would a newcomer have?

[Ataxia]

Force India is hiring. Electronics, aerodynamics, simulator and software. 11 different jobs, no idea how many vacancies. I just had a call about it.

Ah, cheers for the tip-off

[DanielPT]

Here's a possibility that we were discussing in the chatroom this morning. What if Red Bull announce a tie-up with...Cosworth.

Either something like that or Ferrari if they choose to stay in the sport, really. This is because Mercedes obviously rejected a deal to supply Red Bull.

[dr-baker]

Autosport are reporting that Mercedes have rejected supplying Red Bull (formerly that Wild Cat team, Jaguar...) and Red Bull are already terminating their Renault engine supply, while they have yet to approach Ferrari about a supply. Are Red Bull going to end up in difficulties next year if neither Ferrari nor Honda agree to supplying the team with engines?

Maybe Reynolds Metals Co of Richmond, Virginia could attempt a deal, 19 years after first trying to enter the sport as an engine supply?

[FMecha]

Autosport are reporting that Mercedes have rejected supplying Red Bull (formerly that Wild Cat team, Jaguar...) and Red Bull are already terminating their Renault engine supply, while they have yet to approach Ferrari about a supply. Are Red Bull going to end up in difficulties next year if neither Ferrari nor Honda agree to supplying the team with engines?

Maybe Reynolds Metals Co of Richmond, Virginia could attempt a deal, 19 years after first trying to enter the sport as an engine supply?

You forgot Stewart.

I say Red Bull should pull a(n) TWR Arrows and build their own engines in-house.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Also apparently Mercedes board said no to supplying RBR with Merc engines.

This is because Mercedes obviously rejected a deal to supply Red Bull.

Autosport are reporting that Mercedes have rejected supplying Red Bull

It's as if the McLaren rear wing debate spread to other threads...

[Klon]

December is a little late for the season to end, but speaking purely as a fan the off-season is awful.

Well, since that only means they move the season by two weeks (given as it wouldn't start until April), it wouldn't mean much outside of the trivia of the first race in December, given as the off-season would be just as long, only slighty moved.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

...the first race in December.

East London and Sebring say hi

[AndreaModa]

Autosport are reporting that Mercedes have rejected supplying Red Bull (formerly that Wild Cat team, Jaguar...) and Red Bull are already terminating their Renault engine supply, while they have yet to approach Ferrari about a supply. Are Red Bull going to end up in difficulties next year if neither Ferrari nor Honda agree to supplying the team with engines?

Maybe Reynolds Metals Co of Richmond, Virginia could attempt a deal, 19 years after first trying to enter the sport as an engine supply?

You forgot Stewart.

I say Red Bull should pull a(n) TWR Arrows and build their own engines in-house.

They didn't - they were Hart engines, just badged as Arrows.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Autosport are reporting that Mercedes have rejected supplying Red Bull (formerly that Wild Cat team, Jaguar...) and Red Bull are already terminating their Renault engine supply, while they have yet to approach Ferrari about a supply. Are Red Bull going to end up in difficulties next year if neither Ferrari nor Honda agree to supplying the team with engines?

Maybe Reynolds Metals Co of Richmond, Virginia could attempt a deal, 19 years after first trying to enter the sport as an engine supply?

You forgot Stewart.

I say Red Bull should pull a(n) TWR Arrows and build their own engines in-house.

They didn't - they were Hart engines, just badged as Arrows.

Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

[AndreaModa]

[
Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

Soo...Hart engines then

[CoopsII]

[
Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

Soo...Hart engines then

Red Bull Judds. You read it here first

[DanielPT]

[
Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

Soo...Hart engines then

Red Bull Judds. You read it here first

I think they are keen to take previous sponsorship from elsewhere. Red Bull Yamaha it is.

[FMecha]

What I am saying is that Red Bull should have consider building their own engines. They said no to that idea, though.

[Salamander]

What I am saying is that Red Bull should have consider building their own engines. They said no to that idea, though.

Because, you know, building a new engine has worked out so well for McLaren-Honda... wait what do you mean they're 9th in the WCC

[DanielPT]

What I am saying is that Red Bull should have consider building their own engines. They said no to that idea, though.

Because, you know, building a new engine has worked out so well for McLaren-Honda... wait what do you mean they're 9th in the WCC

9th?

[MorbidelliObese]

Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

I may be wrong but weren't the Yamahas were built by Judd rather than Hart? I always thought the "Arrows" V10 was an all new Hart design unrelated to the Yamaha, Hart having previously supplied V8s to Minardi in 1997 (and Arrows themselves the two seasons prior to that)

[DemocalypseNow]

[
Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

Soo...Hart engines then

Well, if you want to get really technical about it, it really was an Arrows engine, as it was a Brian Hart design whilst Brian Hart was an employee of TWR International, and Brian Hart Ltd. had already been bought out by TWR. And, to no-one's surprise, Arrows didn't plough enough money into their newly acquired engine department over the following seasons, and the powerplant suffered as a result.

[golic_2004]

What I am saying is that Red Bull should have consider building their own engines. They said no to that idea, though.

Nah. Red Bull Lamborghini is a more realistic option.

[Londoner]

In more engine-related rumours, a new contender emerges for Mercedes customer units.

Suddenly, Manor could have a very decent package next year. We already know they're ploughing on with an all-new chassis for next season, hence the retention of the 2014 chassis this season. By securing a supply of the best engines on the market, they could have a car to challenge Sauber, Toro Rosso and presumably Haas next year. The cost of the engines to Manor will be offset by running a Mercedes driver in one of the cars. Pascal Wehrlein would fit that bill perfectly, if he can secure a superlicence.

For this to happen though, Manor have to be confident that the Renault takeover of Lotus goes through, which frees up one of the customer Merc slots.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

What I am saying is that Red Bull should have consider building their own engines. They said no to that idea, though.

Nah. Red Bull Lamborghini is a more realistic option.

#AudiF1Confirmed?

[Faustus]

Here's a possibility that we were discussing in the chatroom this morning. What if Red Bull announce a tie-up with...Cosworth.

Think about it, Cosworth were considering developing an engine to the new regulations until mid-2013, when Marussia announced their Ferrari deal. The expertise is in place, and it wouldn't be past the bounds of possibility that Red Bull could send large sums of money into Cosworth's coffers to develop an engine for 2016. Indeed, it might also be possible that Red Bull could take Cosworth over entirely, therefore freeing themselves from the restrictions and demands of the other manufacturers.

Cosworth are broke as bathplug. They are pulling out of their supply contracts in the aerospace industry and have pissed off most of the aerospace primes and a lot of people in purchasing and engineering in the process, so they'll never get back in it. Cosworth is trying to get involved with more OEM customers and making that the focus of their business, rather than motorsport.
Maybe if someone came along with a lot of money and bankrolled them completely, then they might get involved with a big motorsport project.

[Waris]

This stuff about AVL someone posted earlier got me thinking, when I read that AVL apparently design electric engines in addition to combustion-powered ones.

Red Bull to jump ship and reemerge as Red Bull-AVL in Formula E 2016/17. You heard it here first.

[mario]

Here's a possibility that we were discussing in the chatroom this morning. What if Red Bull announce a tie-up with...Cosworth.

Think about it, Cosworth were considering developing an engine to the new regulations until mid-2013, when Marussia announced their Ferrari deal. The expertise is in place, and it wouldn't be past the bounds of possibility that Red Bull could send large sums of money into Cosworth's coffers to develop an engine for 2016. Indeed, it might also be possible that Red Bull could take Cosworth over entirely, therefore freeing themselves from the restrictions and demands of the other manufacturers.

Cosworth are broke as bathplug. They are pulling out of their supply contracts in the aerospace industry and have pissed off most of the aerospace primes and a lot of people in purchasing and engineering in the process, so they'll never get back in it. Cosworth is trying to get involved with more OEM customers and making that the focus of their business, rather than motorsport.
Maybe if someone came along with a lot of money and bankrolled them completely, then they might get involved with a big motorsport project.

I see what you mean about Cosworth being in deep financial trouble - they've been racking up sizeable losses (nearly £15 million in the past two years alone) and their revenue is plummeting.

Although it is likely to have been a low value project, I imagine the fact that Nissan's LMP1 program has tanked for 2015 won't help either - I imagine they would have hoped to leverage that project as an opportunity to try and secure a tie up with Nissan for their wider activities. They did tout their F1 compliant onceptual design back in 2013, but they made it clear that they needed backing from an OEM in order to compete - and it currently looks like few would be willing to take the risk on such a project given Honda's woes.

In more engine-related rumours, a new contender emerges for Mercedes customer units.

Suddenly, Manor could have a very decent package next year. We already know they're ploughing on with an all-new chassis for next season, hence the retention of the 2014 chassis this season. By securing a supply of the best engines on the market, they could have a car to challenge Sauber, Toro Rosso and presumably Haas next year. The cost of the engines to Manor will be offset by running a Mercedes driver in one of the cars. Pascal Wehrlein would fit that bill perfectly, if he can secure a superlicence.

For this to happen though, Manor have to be confident that the Renault takeover of Lotus goes through, which frees up one of the customer Merc slots.

There is also the unfortunate possibility that Lotus could go bankrupt and free up an engine contract for Manor in that way too, although I really hope it does not come to that.

[LovelyFondmetal]

Actually, TWR had taken over Hart and merged it with Arrows, and the engines they used were modified versions of the Hart-designed Yamaha engine from 1997.

I may be wrong but weren't the Yamahas were built by Judd rather than Hart? I always thought the "Arrows" V10 was an all new Hart design unrelated to the Yamaha, Hart having previously supplied V8s to Minardi in 1997 (and Arrows themselves the two seasons prior to that)

Yeah, this is correct. The Yamaha engine used by Arrows in 1997 (and older models used by Tyrrell in 1993-1996) were Judd-built units. This came about after the disastrous 1992 season suffered by Jordan-Yamaha with the thirsty and unreliable V12 unit, which resulted into Judd and Yamaha pooling their F1 engine-building resources. This was a godsend to Judd, as they had lost their 2 remaining customers (Brabham and Andrea Moda) midway through 1992. Arrows were so disappointed with the 1997 unit (methinks Hungary may have had something to do with it), they asked Yamaha to split with Judd and fund Brian Hart's new "1030" V10 for 1998 but Yamaha refused and pulled the plug on the whole project.

Brian Hart did not have the backing to build the new engine in 1997 so was treading water supplying Minardi with the old "830" V8 units, then TWR Arrows came a-knockin'. They bought out Brian Hart Ltd. and funded the construction of the new "1030" V10 badged as an Arrows motor. They did not spend much money on development so Brian Hart quit the team in disgust before the year was out. Arrows continued using the Hart-designed engine in 1999 by which point it was severely down on power compared to it's competitors so Mr. Walkinshaw treated the team to Supertec engines for 2000, which themselves were 1997-spec Renault units

The final irony of this is that Jordan, who had put Yamaha in contact with Judd at the end of 1992, replaced the Yamaha units in 1993 with the Hart "1035" V10. History repeats itself...

[AndreaModa]

Whilst all of this conjecture is fascinating and new to me (thanks everyone!) what it still boils down to is that in 1998 Arrows used a Hart engine, built and badged as an Arrows engine.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Whilst all of this conjecture is fascinating and new to me (thanks everyone!) what it still boils down to is that in 1998 Arrows used a Hart engine, built and badged as an Arrows engine.

...which is like saying Mercedes are using Ilmor engines

[LovelyFondmetal]

Whilst all of this conjecture is fascinating and new to me (thanks everyone!) what it still boils down to is that in 1998 Arrows used a Hart engine, built and badged as an Arrows engine.

This is correct

Whilst all of this conjecture is fascinating and new to me (thanks everyone!) what it still boils down to is that in 1998 Arrows used a Hart engine, built and badged as an Arrows engine.

...which is like saying Mercedes are using Ilmor engines

Don't get me started on that Sauber were supposed to use a Merc engine in 1993, but Merc were cautions and so they instead planned to use Ilmor units badged as Mercedes. Mercedes were still unhappy about this in case things turned into a Footwork-Porsche 1991 scenario so they instead badged the Ilmor engines as "Sauber" units and wrote "Concept by Mercedes Benz" on the bodywork. Merc also funded the construction of the units and bought a stake in Ilmor, although the engines were updated versions of what Leyton House used in 1991 and what March and Tyrrell had used in 1992, the "2175A".

1993 went well, so Mercedes put their name on the engines in 1994 and had the design updated, although fundamentally it was still the 1991 Ilmor unit. It had the designation "2175B" while our old favourites Pacific used the older "2175A". In 1995, Ilmor & Mercedes intorduced a new design for McLaren after splitting with Sauber, the "FO110". I consider this the first "true" Mercedes engine because it was a new design, even though Ilmor built it. Mercedes gradually increased their stake in Ilmor and these days they are "Mercedes High Performance Powertrains

Adam

[CoopsII]

The Haas F1 team website is a bit bleak at the moment...

https://www.haasf1team.com/

C'mon guys let's see some stuff. At the same point in their lifespan USF1 had an all singing all dancing site with Youtube clips and all sorts going on.

[dinizintheoven]

Though that might just mean Haas are concentrating on getting the car ready for testing, whereas USF1's bells and whistles were to put us all off the scent that they were an empty shell...

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Speaking of Haas: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120728

A Ferrari reserve driver will be driving for them next season, they just won't say who, but given that Ferrari's official reserve driver is ESTEBAN GUTIÉRREZ: FERRARI DRIVER, I think that confirms him for the seat.

[Wallio]

The Haas F1 team website is a bit bleak at the moment...

https://www.haasf1team.com/

C'mon guys let's see some stuff. At the same point in their lifespan USF1 had an all singing all dancing site with Youtube clips and all sorts going on.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... teams.html

On the other hand I cannot remember USF1 ever getting the front page of the main F1 website, aside from when Bernie (repeatedly) said they were in trouble.

Lots to pour over in that interview, and honestly, as someone who was looking forward to Haas' debut, not much is good. No American driver, and they admit they are a Ferrari "B-Team". oh well.

[DemocalypseNow]

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/interviews/2015/9/guenther-steiner-q-a--haas-could-become-model-for-new-teams.html

Lots to pour over in that interview, and honestly, as someone who was looking forward to Haas' debut, not much is good. No American driver, and they admit they are a Ferrari "B-Team". oh well.

And it's exactly this that gives me confidence they might actually survive. Steiner is right - they had to take this approach, or the project was guaranteed to be a failure. An American driver for the sake of having an American driver would have been a double whammy.

If Haas had elected not to take this route, and go it alone from the very start, the team would be dead by 2018. At least this way they might be able to establish themselves as respectable midfielders, and give themselves a platform to build from and attempt autonomy further down the line.

[Wallio]

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/interviews/2015/9/guenther-steiner-q-a--haas-could-become-model-for-new-teams.html

Lots to pour over in that interview, and honestly, as someone who was looking forward to Haas' debut, not much is good. No American driver, and they admit they are a Ferrari "B-Team". oh well.

And it's exactly this that gives me confidence they might actually survive. Steiner is right - they had to take this approach, or the project was guaranteed to be a failure. An American driver for the sake of having an American driver would have been a double whammy.

If Haas had elected not to take this route, and go it alone from the very start, the team would be dead by 2018. At least this way they might be able to establish themselves as respectable midfielders, and give themselves a platform to build from and attempt autonomy further down the line.

The American driver thing I can get over, although dismissively saying there is "no one" is shite, Rossi is 2nd in GP2 and has won a bunch this year (or is that a bigger condemnation of GP2?), Newgarden could be had, and hell, maybe even Kurt Busch (whethr or not they should jump series is another matter, but they would). But as I said, I can get over that.

The whole not building their own car thing is what bothers me. This is F1, and since the '70s, you build your own car. Period. This will kill any popularity for them over here. People will say, oh its just Ferrari 2, why not root for the big team? And they'd be right. Ferrari, while popular over here, is not THAT popular, especially when every other racing series over here has teams build their own cars, (or aerokits).

I do find it funny that only a few short years ago, there was massive outrage and backlash everywhere (besides on here of course) against Super Aguri and Torro Rosso and Prodrive over this very thing. It was even a sticking point in the "budget-cap" war. But now its A-OK. That's odd to me.

I'll still root for them, as I have been waiting my entire life for an American F1 team (I was 1 when the other Haas folded) but I will still hold Marussia up higher, as they are doing it right.

[Ataxia]

Just on the subject, Gene Haas has killed two birds with one stone in this article; he has confirmed that either Esteban Gutierrez or Jean-Eric Vergne will drive one of his cars next season, whilst ruling out Alexander Rossi for one of the race drives...or any other rookie for that matter.