The 2017 Australian Grand Prix Thread

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 25 Mar 2017, 17:18

Quietly optimistic about this season after qualifying. The cars look more of a challenge to drive and the field is a bit closer (Palmer aside). Really liked the fact that every team got at least one car into Q2.

Glad to see Giovinazzi acclimatise himself well at such short notice too.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 25 Mar 2017, 17:19

Aislabie wrote:Giovinazzi is a beast; he ought to be in the Ferrari next year if there's any justice

Ahem, RoGro would like a word.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 25 Mar 2017, 19:15

Grosjean and Giovinazzi together in one team would be amazing.

After all, they're ggggggreat!

Good quali today but I was disappointed at how little screen time the back of the midfield got in Q1. Maybe it is the lack of a definitive back of the grid but hopefully that will improve going forward.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 Mar 2017, 01:43

So hype for Giovinazzi debut race. If he manages to score points today, they might as well instantly sack Räikkönen on the spot and promote Gio to the second Ferrari.

No, I am not biased. Not at all. Totally impartial....

:pantano:

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Mar 2017, 02:39

The home-race curse for the Aussies continues

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 26 Mar 2017, 04:55

good_Ralf wrote:The home-race curse for the Aussies continues

Ricky will start from the pit lane.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 26 Mar 2017, 05:00

Really looking forward to this! Keeping a cheeky eye on it on one of the monitors at work...

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 26 Mar 2017, 06:28

Well aside from Alonso/Ocon/Hulkenberg duel this race has been really quite boring. Credit to Ferrari and Vettel with the strategy but bleh, not the most interesting race.

**edit even the world feed cut to some street art being made in the pits**

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 26 Mar 2017, 06:35

One amazing critical moment deciding the race, but otherwise not much happening. It was all right, but I'm not getting the "I love the new F1" feeling I got from 2014.

Poor Alonso....

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Mar 2017, 06:48

sswishbone wrote:Well aside from Alonso/Ocon/Hulkenberg duel this race has been really quite boring. Credit to Ferrari and Vettel with the strategy but bleh, not the most interesting race.

**edit even the world feed cut to some street art being made in the pits**

Less a credit to Ferrari and more a demerit to Mercedes for assuming they could just blitz past most everyone under these new regs like they have since 2014.

This was really a dire race - the only drama at the front was Mercedes screwing up big-time with Hamilton's strategy. With the durable tyres, we're probably going to see a lot of 1-stop races, and there's just not much you can do with that strategy-wise. There's a reason the FIA was forcing Pirelli to create at least 2-stop races the last few years.

Aside from Perez versus the Toro Rossos, and Stroll recovering through the field with a much superior car to those he was fighting, there was little in the way of interesting racing (no, Ocon & Hulkenberg on Alonso doesn't count, the McLaren was broken at that stage and couldn't give a real fight). You don't have to overtake to have a great battle, but nobody was even having to defend outside of those battles, such was the distance between the cars caused by the new aero regs.

I can't even get excited by Red Bull because the only reason Verstappen was in a fight with Raikkonen was because Raikkonen struggled with balance. Overall, even though the race was far better than I feared, it is much worse than I was hoping it would be through pre-season testing. So yeah, this'll likely be the last F1 race I watch until 2018.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 26 Mar 2017, 07:05

So you're giving up after a bit of a dull race on a street track where it is often difficult to pass and before we get to China which can often deliver some exciting races?

Well that makes all kind of sense.

I was encouraged that Vettel could stick close to Hamilton and a potential two team race for the title is definitely a good thing.

Mercedes really do design their car to sit in free air and that could really hamper them this year if they can't guarantee they'll have that free air.

I really liked seeing a red, orange and pink car together on screen followed later by orange, pink and yellow. It looked really colourful after the greys and silver dominated grids.

Giovinazzi drove really well after just having a day to get up to speed.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 26 Mar 2017, 07:06

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:One amazing critical moment deciding the race, but otherwise not much happening. It was all right, but I'm not getting the "I love the new F1" feeling I got from 2014.

Poor Alonso....

Were we watching the same sport? Unfettered Mercedes domination filled me with dread.

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Mar 2017, 07:27

It wasn't a stellar race but it did feature something we haven't seen for a while, a battle (albeit in the pit-lane) for the win between 2 cars from different constructors. What's exciting about this is there will be tracks where the Mercedes is better than the Ferrari and vice versa. It also means that potentially 4 drivers (although Kimi needs to buck his ideas up if this race is anything to go by) that can win GPs, not just 2.

I'm hopefully we can have some decent on-track battles going forward. Not sure we've seen a championship battle between Hamilton and Vettel in equal cars (maybe 2010, you could argue) yet so it will be good to see who really stands tallest out of the two of them.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Mar 2017, 08:09

BigG80 wrote:So you're giving up after a bit of a dull race on a street track where it is often difficult to pass and before we get to China which can often deliver some exciting races?

Well that makes all kind of sense.

It's not impossible to overtake at Albert Park, we've seen a fair bit of it over the last 6 years, but when Hamilton charges up to the back of Verstappen at the rate of over a second a lap faster and can't find a way to even attack, to force Verstappen to at least defend his position, there's something seriously wrong with the product here.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 26 Mar 2017, 08:30

pasta_maldonado wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:One amazing critical moment deciding the race, but otherwise not much happening. It was all right, but I'm not getting the "I love the new F1" feeling I got from 2014.

Poor Alonso....

Were we watching the same sport? Unfettered Mercedes domination filled me with dread.

"The first race weekend of 2014", to be more precise. The excitement of new regulations and the racing they'll bring.

Post by **mario** » 26 Mar 2017, 09:12

Like some of the other posters here, the race has left me with somewhat mixed emotions afterwards.

On the upside, as watka notes, we did at least get to see two different drivers from two different teams competing for the win in that race, which is something that we haven't seen for a while. However, we were left in a situation where it felt like only two drivers were really in contention for the win (Vettel and Hamilton), which is not a huge improvement on the diarchy between Hamilton and Rosberg that we've seen in the past few years.

On the one hand, we did see some of the drivers manage to have a fairly decent battle, particularly the Force India drivers but, as Salamander notes, it did feel like a number of the drivers got bogged down in the wake of another car and couldn't then get close enough to really pressure the leading driver that much, or even force them to do much to defend their position.

The fact that the tyres were capable of taking more punishment did mean that drivers could manage to hold onto the leading driver more easily and race more closely, but against that the relatively low strategic variety meant that it felt somewhat processional and that a number of key moments effectively happened as a result of pit stop strategy. Furthermore, it did feel as if the cars ended up fairly spread out over the course of the race, such that although the opening laps did feature a fair amount of jostling for position, after that it felt like a number of drivers were more or less on their own for much of the race.

As others have said, the Albert Park circuit can throw up a few poor races from time to time - generally, it's tended to require factors like safety cars, random weather events or something else that has broken up the races to make things more interesting - so it is a little too early to be completely pessimistic about the new regulations. However, it does feel as if things were a bit flat - I feel that there will be a number of people who rate the race more highly simply because it wasn't a Mercedes driver winning, but I imagine in retrospect they might be less enthusiastic about this race once that novelty wears off.

girry · Post by **girry** » 26 Mar 2017, 09:50

Salamander wrote:
BigG80 wrote:So you're giving up after a bit of a dull race on a street track where it is often difficult to pass and before we get to China which can often deliver some exciting races?

Well that makes all kind of sense.

It's not impossible to overtake at Albert Park, we've seen a fair bit of it over the last 6 years, but when Hamilton charges up to the back of Verstappen at the rate of over a second a lap faster and can't find a way to even attack, to force Verstappen to at least defend his position, there's something seriously wrong with the product here.

Well apparently this is "what the drivers and the fans wanted": cars that are impressive to watch on the track on their own and that the drivers enjoy driving, just like in the "golden years" of the early 2000's. Because all that mattered with the rule changes was that the cars must be 10 seconds quicker than GP2 cars - whether they would facilitate anything that resembles "battles" or "close racing" was completely secondary, was it not...?

Personally, I will of course keep watching - in fact I am very excited about the prospect of an emerging multi team title battle this year, and the midfield looks very close as well so there should be a nice battle for 7th in driver standings too. But the core concern is very valid - in a few years at most, we are bound to face another season of one team domination, and the new ruleset will make that really, really dire...

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 26 Mar 2017, 09:56

The coverage was dire, the director seemed to miss so much and got distracted by "street art" and Ricci picking his nose after breaking down. Also the camera angles, sun's position and time of day washed out the whole picture - it felt very SD to me. The new colour schemes were great though.

Given that it is now broadcast in UHD and just perfect for a techo-rich multi-media screen presentation - WHERE WERE THE ON-SCREEN GRAPHICS? The lack of the ticker at the bottom meant that one had to rely on Brundle/Crofty to know what was going on off-screen and where was the dynamic graphic showing G-force, battery level, throttle/brake levels? This was a massive loss from my PoV.

Overtaking? Well the first thing we need is other cars to overtake! We have lost 4 cars since 15 months ago and with the high attrition there were even fewer. Crofty's views on blue flags made me realise that they are a legacy issue when there were high20/low30s cars out there - lets see the leader trying to pass two cars battling rather than destroying their race. DRS seemed to make little difference today.

Also overtaking needs the engines to be more equal; Honda and Renault were clearly down on power and they can do little due to the regulations on engine life/use. Horner's comment about probably needing five units over the season anyway was revealing. Penalties would/will create overtaking but it is almost as artificial as DRS and slower teams are as likely to take them as the fast ones.

Best moment - Ocon/Alonso/Hulk doing an impersonation of a Battenburg cake.

Worst moment - when it became obvious that Bottas was Hamilton's bitch.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 26 Mar 2017, 14:42

Friday: It's all the same the new rules stink. Mercedes will win everything!

Sunday: (After there was a battle for the lead) Ferrari won, but Hamilton couldn't blitz through the field! The new rules stink!

In all seriousness, I think they did ok with the new rules (aside from the whole 5 seconds a lap quicker bs), way better than 2014 no doubt. But if they want one stop hard tyres and pushing all the time, you have to allow refueling. That's what the 2000s had that we are missing. If you (read the FIA) want passing in the pits, fine, but allow some strategy.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 26 Mar 2017, 15:36

Wallio wrote:But if they want one stop hard tyres and pushing all the time, you have to allow refueling. That's what the 2000s had that we are missing. If you (read the FIA) want passing in the pits, fine, but allow some strategy.

Couldn't agree more; high-performance (but shorter-lived) tyres and a tank capped at about 40 or 50 kilos of fuel would make for a far better spectacle imo. But I've been calling for refuelling pretty much since they took it away.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 26 Mar 2017, 16:28

Well, it was certainly not a classic Grand Prix by any means. Okay, the battle for the lead was okay but after Vettel emerged from the pitstops in the lead the top 5 was more or less settled. The TV feed (Sky) was not the best either and I am seriously so done with Crofty.

The cars were impressive though and I am cautiously optimistic that there will be good racing this year as long as the pack stays close.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Mar 2017, 16:48

Today wasn't an enthralling race, but it was still a good one (I'm not the biggest fan of Vettel, but I was actually happy to see him win).

I think we will see more Mercedes vs. Ferrari battles (and soon the Finns will be battling for wins as well), but not at every race, China could easily see Mercedes destroy the field like they've done in most GPs, but hopefully that won't happen. It'd be nice for the Red Bull drivers to be at the very front end soon IMO.
Indeed, I'm wishing not every race will be a Mercedes/Ferrari/RBR whitewash, the way Vettel lapped every midfield car except Massa was a bit disconcerting.

As for the lack of racing and strategy, I'm not too peeved at that yet, I will be if that turns out to the case in every Grand Prix (don't think it will be tbh). That some people are already complaining frustrates me, it feels like they're jumping the gun after just one race..What happens in Australia isn't the best indicator of what to expect over the course of the season, otherwise McLaren would've been regular podium finishers in 2014 etc.

Oh, and as for the disappointing TV graphics, it could just be that FOM had some issues and stuff like the G-meter and the live telemetry won't be ready until China or Bahrain.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 26 Mar 2017, 17:52

Feels a bit like 2010 so far - closer inter-team battles for the wins and championship, but maybe not that much wheel-to-wheel action, however I am hopeful given how Verstappen was only just behind Kimi at the end that Red Bull can make it a genuine 3 team battle for the championship too. That would be great.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 26 Mar 2017, 19:35

Aislabie wrote:But I've been calling for refuelling pretty much since they took it away.

Me too.

Post by **Ataxia** » 26 Mar 2017, 20:52

Refuelling, really?

Refuelling is absolutely rubbish; if you think the on-track action is bad now, the effect of refuelling suppresses that even further. Fine, the cars go a bit quicker, but why risk an overtake when you can overhaul the driver in the pitstops?

Then there's the effect on safety and the financial implications of the refueling rigs; watching a driver drag a pipe around after they've left the pits too quickly makes me wince.

Lastly, there's the graph here. During 1994-2009, which included refuelling, the amount of overtaking dropped significantly. If you want on-track action, you are barking up the wrong tree. Rock-solid tyres and refuelling is the worst combo; 2005 has the lowest overtaking average in all of the seasons covered.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Mar 2017, 23:08

Just found out that in terms of average speed, this is the 3rd fastest Melbourne GP, behind 2004 and 2007

I also took the lap time data from the race, and assuming that the fuel weight penalty is 0.05s/lap around Albert Park, Bottas set the fastest fuel-adjusted lap time in the race (1:25.4 on lap 27 after his tyre stop). Over 5 consecutive (fuel-adjusted) laps, Hamilton was the fastest driver.
Beyond the Mercedes/Ferraris/Verstappen, the fastest drivers were about 1.5 to 2 seconds off the pace, which isn't great, you'd expect the front three teams to pull further away over the rest of the year.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 27 Mar 2017, 01:25

Ataxia wrote:Lastly, there's the graph here. During 1994-2009, which included refuelling, the amount of overtaking dropped significantly. If you want on-track action, you are barking up the wrong tree. Rock-solid tyres and refuelling is the worst combo; 2005 has the lowest overtaking average in all of the seasons covered.

That genuinely surprises me, because I can remember several classic races from the refuelling era. I guess that's the point of nostalgia though - the forgettable bits get forgotten.

That said, the various strategic options that were made possible by refuelling, coupled (controversially) with last year's tyres would give teams astonishing tactical freedom. It would also create a chance for overtaking imo because a light car on ultras should fly past a fat car on softs

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 27 Mar 2017, 06:11

Dull race. If I were a Vettel fan I'd be moderately pleased but I wouldn't be getting carried away and, likewise, if I were a Hamilton fan I wouldn't be too disappointed and I'd feel hopeful for the season as a whole. If I were a fan of the other drivers I'm not sure how I'd feel. Happy they turned up?

People are right to say 'it's only the first race, give it time' but the world doesn't work like that. The first race of the season should've been electrifying, a real statement of intent. To the casual viewer yesterdays race possibly confirmed to them that F1 is the same as it ever was. They really shouldn't make such a big deal of the rule changes and new cars etc etc as it hypes the product up to such a level it will always disappoint. It's like a brand new shop opening with last years lines for sale, they may well promise that the latest gear is being delivered next week but not everybody will bother returning.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 27 Mar 2017, 18:01

Benetton wrote:Well, it was certainly not a classic Grand Prix by any means. Okay, the battle for the lead was okay but after Vettel emerged from the pitstops in the lead the top 5 was more or less settled. The TV feed (Sky) was not the best either and I am seriously so done with Crofty.

I didn't miss the Sky coverage one bit. Admittedly C4 were helped by not having the idiotic Eddie Jordan or the waste of space Susie Wolff making their coverage potentially worse but mostly I thought they did a good job. The only bit that annoyed me was when DC responded to Bernie's Sauber graphic on the parade lap by saying 'yeah, 25 years of mediocricy (sic)' - hey you, some of us LIKE mediocrity!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Mar 2017, 18:16

Having streamed the NBCSN coverage, I have to say I found it a pleasant change of pace from Sky's toxic and bias-laden coverage. The amount of insight was lacking compared to British coverage, but it was more than made up for by the positive tone, genuine enthusiasm, and real chemistry between the commentators. They made mistakes, yet I never felt like they presented a know-it-all, condescending facade the likes of David Croft and David Coulthard do, so such instances were far more forgivable.

The only bit that annoyed me was when DC responded to Bernie's Sauber graphic on the parade lap by saying 'yeah, 25 years of mediocricy (sic)'

I didn't think there was anything else DC could do to make me despise him more, but there you go. What a disgraceful thing to say, I hope somebody yelled at him for that.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 27 Mar 2017, 19:23

25 years of mediocracy..
Yeah let's just ignore the years when they were the factory BMW team, and both 2001 and 2012 when they did well (nearly winning a couple of races in 2012)

Spectoremg · Post by **Spectoremg** » 27 Mar 2017, 20:28

Barbazza wrote:
Benetton wrote:Well, it was certainly not a classic Grand Prix by any means. Okay, the battle for the lead was okay but after Vettel emerged from the pitstops in the lead the top 5 was more or less settled. The TV feed (Sky) was not the best either and I am seriously so done with Crofty.

I didn't miss the Sky coverage one bit. Admittedly C4 were helped by not having the idiotic Eddie Jordan or the waste of space Susie Wolff making their coverage potentially worse but mostly I thought they did a good job. The only bit that annoyed me was when DC responded to Bernie's Sauber graphic on the parade lap by saying 'yeah, 25 years of mediocricy (sic)' - hey you, some of us LIKE mediocrity!

Oh was that a dig at Sauber? I thought he was describing his racing years.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2017, 13:07

Autosport wrote:FIA president Jean Todt believes a lack of overtaking in Formula 1 in 2017 may be a price worth paying for faster and more spectacular cars.

Well I guess I'm not welcome any more.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 28 Mar 2017, 13:19

Salamander wrote:
Autosport wrote:FIA president Jean Todt believes a lack of overtaking in Formula 1 in 2017 may be a price worth paying for faster and more spectacular cars.

Well I guess I'm not welcome any more.

Formula 1 Trains. Coming soon.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 28 Mar 2017, 14:22

Ataxia wrote:Refuelling, really?

Refuelling is absolutely rubbish; if you think the on-track action is bad now, the effect of refuelling suppresses that even further. Fine, the cars go a bit quicker, but why risk an overtake when you can overhaul the driver in the pitstops?

Then there's the effect on safety and the financial implications of the refueling rigs; watching a driver drag a pipe around after they've left the pits too quickly makes me wince.

Lastly, there's the graph here. During 1994-2009, which included refuelling, the amount of overtaking dropped significantly. If you want on-track action, you are barking up the wrong tree. Rock-solid tyres and refuelling is the worst combo; 2005 has the lowest overtaking average in all of the seasons covered.

You misunderstand me, I personally don't give a hoot about on-track passing one way or the other. I actually really enjoyed Sundays race. Probably because I believe F1 should be a damn near purely technical exercise to build the best cars on earth. These rules are trying to take back that crown from the WEC.

My point is this, the fans (including many on this site) demanded the drivers push all the time. How do you do that? Harder, gripper tyres. Ok no problem. But now everyone will simply do one-stop strategies. Now the fans (although not many on here) are demanding more varied pit wall biz. You can't have it both ways....UNLESS you allow refueling. Allow refueling, and ditch the "mandatory tyre change". Some teams would run softs and refuel, others would try and go the distance. Would it be better? Who knows? But its worth a try.

And please, can we stop this whole "refueling is unsafe" nonsense? Its not. Not at all. Indycar, NASCAR, DTM, WEC, and IMSA can all pull it off safely and have for years, but F1 can't? Please. Here's an idea, limit the bloody number of mechanics working on the car which would slow the stops, or create a "minimum" pit stop time. Hell, that would vary strategy, as you would have to decide to run light and waste time in the pits, or run heavy and not stop! Plus with how many loose wheels there's been these past few seasons, pit stops are hardly "safe".

EDIT: Also don't forget refueling was banned in 2010 due to cost, NOT safety. The teams whinged the rigs were too much money.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2017, 16:11

Refuelling being unbanned is likely a moot point anyway - Ross Brawn has indicated he would like to increase the overtaking situation through overhauling the aero regs anyway, so I'm pretty sure he won't see the point in bringing all the fuel rigs and everything back into the sport for only a couple of seasons.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 28 Mar 2017, 16:18

Personally I don't care how fast the cars go if the racing is good. If slower cars mean better racing, that's fine by me and this if often the case. If we look at the MotoGP package, the moto3 races are usually insane. Also with the Btcc package the smaller more aerodynamic Ginetta juniors produce really fun racing.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 28 Mar 2017, 17:00

Salamander wrote:Having streamed the NBCSN coverage, I have to say I found it a pleasant change of pace from Sky's toxic and bias-laden coverage. The amount of insight was lacking compared to British coverage, but it was more than made up for by the positive tone, genuine enthusiasm, and real chemistry between the commentators. They made mistakes, yet I never felt like they presented a know-it-all, condescending facade the likes of David Croft and David Coulthard do, so such instances were far more forgivable.

The only bit that annoyed me was when DC responded to Bernie's Sauber graphic on the parade lap by saying 'yeah, 25 years of mediocricy (sic)'

I didn't think there was anything else DC could do to make me despise him more, but there you go. What a disgraceful thing to say, I hope somebody yelled at him for that.

Ben Edwards is (sadly) not the type to do that, though a reference to the BMW years and 'they won a race, you know!' wouldn't have gone amiss. Firing off a response like spectoremg made in this very forum (well done sir!) would have been even better.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 28 Mar 2017, 17:05

Salamander wrote:Refuelling being unbanned is likely a moot point anyway - Ross Brawn has indicated he would like to increase the overtaking situation through overhauling the aero regs anyway, so I'm pretty sure he won't see the point in bringing all the fuel rigs and everything back into the sport for only a couple of seasons.

Bring out the jerry cans!

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 29 Mar 2017, 12:36

andrew wrote:Personally I don't care how fast the cars go if the racing is good. If slower cars mean better racing, that's fine by me and this if often the case. If we look at the MotoGP package, the moto3 races are usually insane. Also with the Btcc package the smaller more aerodynamic Ginetta juniors produce really fun racing.

Too insane. Each individual overtake isn't that exciting. Still enjoyable, but not appropriate for F1.