Virgin fuel tank not big enough

homerbhoy · Post by **homerbhoy** » 11 Mar 2010, 08:32

I heard from someone that the virgin fuel tank is not big enough to finish the gp. Hope this ain't true

coops · Post by **coops** » 11 Mar 2010, 08:35

I'll be annoyed if the Virgin doesnt go the distance.

homerbhoy · Post by **homerbhoy** » 11 Mar 2010, 08:43

Maybe some HRT could help

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 11 Mar 2010, 08:53

It's a shame Bahrain is so flat. If it was a steeper track, they could turn off their engines on the downhills.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 Mar 2010, 09:23

homerbhoy wrote:I heard from someone that the virgin fuel tank is not big enough to finish the gp. Hope this ain't true

Now, that would be a monumental cock-up (and one we've seen before, by the way). I really hope that's not true, would love to see the Virgin going all the way.

K-RON · Post by **K-RON** » 11 Mar 2010, 09:41

CarlosFerreira wrote: would love to see the Virgin going all the way.

coops · Post by **coops** » 11 Mar 2010, 09:43

As amusing as it is surely that cant be true can it? Car designed by Homer Simpson? ("Hmm, fuel tank size, maybe that should be....bigger.....Hey! That guys got donuts!!" <runs off>).

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 Mar 2010, 10:13

coops wrote:As amusing as it is surely that cant be true can it? Car designed by Homer Simpson? ("Hmm, fuel tank size, maybe that should be....bigger.....Hey! That guys got donuts!!" <runs off>).

There are precedents, as documented in our very own F1Rejects:

eytl wrote:Further modifications were called for, and a second prototype was thus produced, although its bulky appearance were no match for the smoother lines of the original. It was also longer than the original, having to accommodate a larger fuel tank since the previous tank was so small the car could never hope to complete a race distance.

Granted, that was a prototype...

Post by **mario** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:11

CarlosFerreira wrote:
coops wrote:As amusing as it is surely that cant be true can it? Car designed by Homer Simpson? ("Hmm, fuel tank size, maybe that should be....bigger.....Hey! That guys got donuts!!" <runs off>).

There are precedents, as documented in our very own F1Rejects:

eytl wrote:Further modifications were called for, and a second prototype was thus produced, although its bulky appearance were no match for the smoother lines of the original. It was also longer than the original, having to accommodate a larger fuel tank since the previous tank was so small the car could never hope to complete a race distance.

Granted, that was a prototype...

True, there might have been one team which was foolish enough to build a car with too small a fuel tank in the past, and the teams will be pushing their cars to the limit this year to avoid having to carry extra dead weight. But it seems like such a fundamental mistake to make that it almost sounds a bit too far fetched to be true. I mean, yes, it is a new team, so they will inevitably make a few mistakes along the way - but given all the data from Cosworth, they can't have got it so wrong, could they?
And if the car can't make it the full distance at Bahrein - which I don't think is the longest race distance in total, and not the one with the highest fuel consumption either - then they are in real trouble at somewhere like Monza or Singapore, where the race is either faster (i.e. more full throttle) or longer total race distance.
Homerbhoy, where did you hear this rumour? I'm very surprised, and therefore curious to see where this rumour has come from, because for all we know, this could be the Internet equivalent of overhearing somebody else in the pub going "Apparently, right..." - and have as much veracity.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:22

If this is true then it's one of the most astute design decisions in years...
1. They will break down with hydraulic problems well before the end of most races, so why carry all that extra weight?
2. They will never do a full race distance as they will always be 4-5 laps behind the leaders
3. Their best chance of a result will be in poor conditions and in the rain fuel consumption is much reduced...

homerbhoy · Post by **homerbhoy** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:35

mario wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
coops wrote:As amusing as it is surely that cant be true can it? Car designed by Homer Simpson? ("Hmm, fuel tank size, maybe that should be....bigger.....Hey! That guys got donuts!!" <runs off>).

There are precedents, as documented in our very own F1Rejects:

eytl wrote:Further modifications were called for, and a second prototype was thus produced, although its bulky appearance were no match for the smoother lines of the original. It was also longer than the original, having to accommodate a larger fuel tank since the previous tank was so small the car could never hope to complete a race distance.

Granted, that was a prototype...

True, there might have been one team which was foolish enough to build a car with too small a fuel tank in the past, and the teams will be pushing their cars to the limit this year to avoid having to carry extra dead weight. But it seems like such a fundamental mistake to make that it almost sounds a bit too far fetched to be true. I mean, yes, it is a new team, so they will inevitably make a few mistakes along the way - but given all the data from Cosworth, they can't have got it so wrong, could they?
And if the car can't make it the full distance at Bahrein - which I don't think is the longest race distance in total, and not the one with the highest fuel consumption either - then they are in real trouble at somewhere like Monza or Singapore, where the race is either faster (i.e. more full throttle) or longer total race distance.
Homerbhoy, where did you hear this rumour? I'm very surprised, and therefore curious to see where this rumour has come from, because for all we know, this could be the Internet equivalent of overhearing somebody else in the pub going "Apparently, right..." - and have as much veracity.

It was on twitter via F1 badger who resent it from sutton images, wellknown F1 photographer. not massive source i know but one to look out for

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 11 Mar 2010, 11:42

It does me think of the mclaren 88 (?) where alan prost pushed his car over the finish line also because of a leck of room in the fuel tank.

Chewie · Post by **Chewie** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:19

Same as all Virgins; she'll need a few tries before they can fit a bigger one in.......

........I'll get my coat.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:38

This is unfortunate news. Hope the Virgin GP fuel tank proves to be enough when the racing gets going.

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » 11 Mar 2010, 12:40

Hey, don't hold it against them, it's their first time :lol:

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 11 Mar 2010, 13:02

Looking forward to half-tank glory runs from Virgin in every race this year, a la Derek Warwick and Toleman at the 1982 British Grand Prix. The car's actually bulletproof; the "hydraulic problems" are just a ruse so that retiring in every race will seem plausible. :lol:

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 11 Mar 2010, 14:03

Undoubtedly one of the most ashaming mistakes a team can make while designing the car. We'll see what they'll do in Bahrain. If it comes true, we may see them missing a race or two to sort the problem.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 11 Mar 2010, 14:27

I wouldn't have thought missing a race was likely; there are only four approved fuel tank suppliers and the only changes Wirth Research need to make are the ones that generate new space for the tank to occupy. That shouldn't take too long... ...though logistics may prevent the B-spec Virgin being used until China or possibly Spain.

Popi_Larrauri · Post by **Popi_Larrauri** » 11 Mar 2010, 15:33

Come on!

We can't believe this. It would be the most stupid lack of perspective in history of motorsport ever. Life F1 wouldn't have fall into this mistake! Who designed that car if it's true? A hair-stylist?

Besides, even if they calculated the design without knowing the Cosworth unit consumption (because they didn't have it at the time), they must have done it taking as reference other engines. And the Cosworth it's supposed to have a better ratio in this department than the already stablished engines average.

If the problem was the CFD, then by Lord's sake, Which OS are they using? DOS 6.2?

Headline: "Virgin not so wet after all" (?)

Post by **mario** » 11 Mar 2010, 16:51

Popi_Larrauri wrote:Come on!

We can't believe this. It would be the most stupid lack of perspective in history of motorsport ever. Life F1 wouldn't have fall into this mistake! Who designed that car if it's true? A hair-stylist?

Besides, even if they calculated the design without knowing the Cosworth unit consumption (because they didn't have it at the time), they must have done it taking as reference other engines. And the Cosworth it's supposed to have a better ratio in this department than the already stablished engines average.

If the problem was the CFD, then by Lord's sake, Which OS are they using? DOS 6.2?

Headline: "Virgin not so wet after all" (?)

I think that for the moment I will share your scepticism until some hard proof turns up - in other words, when they actually run out of fuel, then I will believe the reports (no offence homerbhoy, but until I see confirmation from elsewhere, I don't want to rush in and accept that report as definitive proof).

B Leinders · Post by **B Leinders** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:26

coops wrote:I'll be annoyed if the Virgin doesnt go the distance.

Just think of the possible headlines.

'Virgin not going all the way'
'Virgin unable to keep going untill the end'
'Virgin forced to go at low pace'
...

(sigh)

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 11 Mar 2010, 17:52

I don't believe it. The rumour that is.

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 11 Mar 2010, 19:05

Virgin swallows more than expected

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 11 Mar 2010, 19:11

I have these exact same suspicions about the Renault fuel tank, honestly...

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 11 Mar 2010, 20:40

Perhaps these suspicions are true for more than just these two teams and we will have a finish like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDt9Dc2X5hc
(which is also, clearly, GP2's most rejectworty moment so far). Except for Senna and Petrov being in front.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 11 Mar 2010, 20:46

I wouldn't be that surprised if this did happen, things like this have happened before. In 1997 Williams didn't have enough space for large brake discs at the first race, meaning they had to use smaller ones, go on the inferior two-stop strategy to help brake wear and still ended up with Frentzen having brake failure. And that was Williams...nonetheless if this does happen it will be extremely embarassing, the F1 equivalent of having someone pull your pants down in the middle of Piccadilly Circus.

Popi_Larrauri · Post by **Popi_Larrauri** » 11 Mar 2010, 20:48

P_Friesacher wrote:Virgin swallows more than expected

...and just when we expected no record could be broken... : P_Friesacher!!!"

:lol:

thalion · Post by **thalion** » 11 Mar 2010, 21:02

Maybe they know that they won't go the all the way the first few races and have designed the Virgin's fuel tank to expand with continued use? Either that or they expect lots of safety car periods.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Mar 2010, 23:07

homerbhoy wrote:I heard from someone that the virgin fuel tank is not big enough to finish the gp. Hope this ain't true

That's just a rumour, probably born ou of the fact that Virgin never really got a full race-distance of running during testing. It's like the rumour HRT didn't have their cars in Barain since their garage doors were closed.

The teams are not stupid. They'll know how much fuel they need, and they'll have a tank big enough to accomodate it.

Keirdre · Post by **Keirdre** » 12 Mar 2010, 17:14

Nah, can't be! Panic not all. Although he it would be jolly amusing.

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 12 Mar 2010, 21:06

Well, I suppose they could turn their engines down, short shift etc to reduce fuel comsumption, but that would make them slower than the safety car. (Of course, Hispania are already slower than the safety car so thaty's nothing new).

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » 13 Mar 2010, 00:02

Perhaps they'll spin it like...it's not that our tank isn't big enough so much as this track isn't small enough for our wicked car

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Mar 2010, 00:08

noisebox wrote:so why carry all that extra weight?

That's why it's still a Virgin. :lol:

I'm just wondering how long we can keep the Virgin puns going.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 13 Mar 2010, 00:26

redbulljack14 wrote:
noisebox wrote:so why carry all that extra weight?

That's why it's still a Virgin.

I'm just wondering how long we can keep the Virgin puns going.

Until we get slapped with a harassment charge.

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 13 Mar 2010, 01:15

redbulljack14 wrote:I'm just wondering how long we can keep the Virgin puns going.

Until the team is renamed "Awkward First Time Racing"?

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » 13 Mar 2010, 01:35

P_Friesacher wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:I'm just wondering how long we can keep the Virgin puns going.

Until the team is renamed "Awkward First Time Racing"?

Inevitably disappointing debut motorsports?

TeamTipper · Post by **TeamTipper** » 13 Mar 2010, 04:14

Is the car too small??? Virgin are in a bit of trouble atm

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 13 Mar 2010, 10:30

Undoubtedly, that Virgin has no balance at all. Very unconsistent, you have to keep correcting all the time...

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 14 Mar 2010, 17:52

The fuel tank could still be too small for all we know, because the hydraulics don't last as long as the fuel

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 15 Mar 2010, 01:52

Virgin pun jokes... simply awesome. :lol: