New teams for 2010

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 21 May 2009, 05:43

Scratch Campos Racing from the list.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75458

The paper tigers fold away. We'll be lucky if there are 3 real teams ready to enter.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 21 May 2009, 06:48

Faustus wrote:Strictly speaking, not correct. I-Sport employ a large number of ex-Super Aguri staff. Also, if Litespeed is in association with Mike Gasycone, who has been in F1 a lot longer than Dave Richards and a lot more recently.

I meant experience in running a team. Mike Gascoyne is merely a designer; those ex-Aguri staff don't include Aguri Suzuki himself.

Faustus wrote:Prodrive could have entered Formula 1 in 2008. In fact, could and should have. They committed to it. They took over an entry that plenty of other teams were seriously interested in as well. They did not explore every possibility to enter as a customer team and merely settled on using McLaren chassis and Mercedes engines. They decided to enter in their own terms only and then lost their sponsor for their reluctance to adapt to the situation that unfolded. The situation should have been resolved BEFORE you lodge an entry. It's bad planning.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to start a team? USGPE have been going at it for at least a year, and while the first drawings are done, they don't expect their first car to hit the rack until November. Prodrive were put into a situation where they had a very limited window of opportunity with which to buold a team up, a window that would have been the same for any new team. Sure, the most notable were European Minardi, Eddie Jordan the Jean Alesi-backed Direxiv outfit and Carlin Motorsport. But because there was only one place available on the grid, those teams could hardly build a chassis and plan their entry years in advance, could they? They needed confirmation that they could join the grid before they could develop anything, which meant they only had a very breif period in which to build a car. Given that they were so limited, they obviously had to make a decision quickly. They couldn't adapt to the situation as it unfolded because it wasn't viable to do so. It would become a financial black hole, and so give the choice of two less-than-stellar options, they took the one that was better for them.

Just because Richards' Prodrive effort was sunk before he could make good on it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve another shot at it. The FIA obviously felt he had the most convincing package to join in 2008, and if they rule the same way for 2010, why shouldn't he be allowed to join? It's not like he skunked it the first time just to stick it to the FIA.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 21 May 2009, 07:38

Faustus wrote:Prodrive could have entered Formula 1 in 2008. In fact, could and should have. They committed to it. They took over an entry that plenty of other teams were seriously interested in as well. They did not explore every possibility to enter as a customer team and merely settled on using McLaren chassis and Mercedes engines. They decided to enter in their own terms only and then lost their sponsor for their reluctance to adapt to the situation that unfolded. The situation should have been resolved BEFORE you lodge an entry. It's bad planning.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to start a team? USGPE have been going at it for at least a year, and while the first drawings are done, they don't expect their first car to hit the track until November. Prodrive were put into a situation where they had a very limited window of opportunity with which to build a team up, a window that would have been the same for any new team. Sure, the most notable were European Minardi, Eddie Jordan the Jean Alesi-backed Direxiv outfit and Carlin Motorsport. But because there was only one place available on the grid, those teams could hardly build a chassis and plan their entry years in advance, could they? They needed confirmation that they could join the grid before they could develop anything, which meant they only had a very breif period in which to build a car. Given that they were so limited, they obviously had to make a decision quickly. They couldn't adapt to the situation as it unfolded because it wasn't viable to do so. It would become a financial black hole, and so give the choice of two less-than-stellar options, they took the one that was better for them.

Just because Richards' Prodrive effort was sunk before he could make good on it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve another shot at it. The FIA obviously felt he had the most convincing package to join in 2008, and if they rule the same way for 2010, why shouldn't he be allowed to join? It's not like he skunked it the first time just to stick it to the FIA.[/quote]

The entry was awarded in April 2006.
'Do I have any idea how difficult it is to start a team?' Yes, I do, and a very good idea at that, from first-hand experience. I was with Super Aguri for 3 months in 2006, before I left to pursue other interests. I was at Arrows before that and I've worked with plenty of teams in various forms of motorsport.

You'd be amazed how much of the manufacturing and design of a Formula 1 car isn't actually carried out in-house. Only the big teams can afford to manufacture everything. Force India and Red Bull, for example, sub-contract half of their composite work and 80% of their machining work. Even some of the sub-assembly is done at sub-contractors. Did you know that Renault sub-contracts design work to Prodrive?

'European Minardi, Eddie Jordan the Jean Alesi-backed Direxiv outfit and Carlin Motorsport'
There was nothing left of European Minardi by 2006, as they don't even run the 2-seater cars anymore, it's sub-contracted. Eddie Jordan had absolutely nothing by then, as well. I actually thought Direxiv was one of the best options, because I knew a guy who is a Mechanical Design Engineer at McLaren who was provisionally assigned to them, to investigate the feasability of updates to the 2007 car for the 2008 tyres. At least they had their finance worked out.

Carlin is a funny old thing. A bit of a well-kept secret and I'd say they're the 2nd best of the potential new teams, after Lola. Depending on finance, of course. They've got the old Brabham facilities at Chessington, quite nice ones and very much updated since. Under their previous guise of Bowman, they build a Formula 3 car that ran from 1991 to 1993. My mate David Lowe is their technical director and I've been to their place. The team designs and manufactures their own updates to the Dallara F3 car, quite extensive ones at that, like the barge boards, wings and engine covers. They have their own 1/3rd scale wind tunnel. They also do a lot of sub-contracted composite work for undisclosed F1 teams and I saw bodywork bits for the KTM X-Bow there.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 22 May 2009, 08:20

The Campos Racing team has confirmed its intention to enter Formula 1 in 2010, having lodged its entry for the championship tonight.

The team, currently racing in the Spanish Formula 3 Championship, is owned by former grand prix driver Adrian Campos, who previously owned current GP2 champion Barwa Addax. This was initially believed to be the team which had F1 plans, something that was denied earlier this week.

Campos Racing confirmed on Friday that at 00:05 it had lodged its entry for the championship under the budget cap rules.

The official period to submit entries for next year opened today and closes on May 29.

Campos said it has lodged its entry in conjunction with Meta Image, and that the F1 team would be called Campos Meta 1.

The team said it was unwilling to reveal the people involved in the project, but denied reports that appeared in the Spanish media about some of the investors linked to it.

Spain's top-selling newspaper Marca had reported earlier this week that Mexican businessman Carlos Slim and NBA player Pau Gasol were involved in the project.

From: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75501

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 22 May 2009, 08:31

Nice. Emphatically denied on the 20th of May and then officially confirmed on the 22nd of May.

ImissJORDAN · Post by **ImissJORDAN** » 22 May 2009, 09:07

We've seen before that stubborn Americanism doesn't work in F1, so I hope USGP can adapt enough to function properly, if not be somewhat successful. I would love to see all of the current teams bar STR on the grid (I like them, but think it's wrong that they can be a B-Team to Red Bull with virtually the same car), with four new teams. USGP looks like one of them, and I'd like to see Lola and a couple of GP2 teams thrown in there as well.

However, it seems as if the powers that be are dead set upon messing everyone around to the point that entries will have to be certified at the 11th hour, or postponed. I think the way this is being handled by the FIA is going to lead to a farcical 2010, if they're not careful, without Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault and Toyota.

It needs to be sorted out before we can really speculate on the nature of the new teams.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 22 May 2009, 09:39

I think Ian Phillips put it perfectly yesterday during the BBC coverage of free practice. The teams will complain, make threats, but this time next year they will all be there again.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 22 May 2009, 13:24

So ... forty-eight hours after vehemently denying it, Campos are back in:

Campos submits F1 entry for 2010

22 May 2009

Former Formula 1 driver Adrian Campos is the first team to submit an entry for the 2010 Formula 1 championship on Friday. The Spaniard submitted his entry for next season just minutes after the application window opened.

The application window opened at midnight, while the closing deadline is May 29 2009. The team confirmed its official entry in a statement but no details were given about any details of the team.

Adrian Campos ran a GP2 team until the end of last season when he sold his GP2 team to a Spanish business man.

Over 10 teams already expressed an interest so far to enter Formula 1 next season but so far just one team has officially submitted an entry for next year's Formula 1 season.

So, not only have they done a complete backflip, but they're also the first official entry given that applications have only just opened. That said, Ecclestone has said entires won't be granted on a first-come-first-serve basis, but rather on the mertis of individual applications, which is just plain common sense.

Spanish media are also reporting that Campos are working with the aid of Carlos Slim, the enigmatic Mexican businessman who was the first name associated with the Honda buyout, and also with Spanish-born NBA player Pau Gasol, though Campos deny it.

So we've got a Spanish entrant likely to be basedin Spain and being run by a former Formula One driver from Spain, with funding supposedly coming from a Spanish-speaking businessman and having a connection to a Spanish basketball player. Given that Campos gave Fernando Alonso a drive early in his career, what the bet that Spaniard's name is the first associated with Campos Grand Prix?

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 22 May 2009, 15:30

USF1 has submitted an entry request.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0528.shtml

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 22 May 2009, 15:31

Everyone saying Campos have done an about turn regarding their entry - it was Barwa Addex, a team Campos left last year who emphatically denied their participation in F1 2010, Campos himself never confirmed or denied it.

dragonsteincole · Post by **dragonsteincole** » 22 May 2009, 16:10

Valrys wrote:Everyone saying Campos have done an about turn regarding their entry - it was Barwa Addex, a team Campos left last year who emphatically denied their participation in F1 2010, Campos himself never confirmed or denied it.

Indeed, for a long time Adrian Campos has held ambitions of getting back into F1 with his own team. Why, he even says so in the interview here on F1 Rejects!
You read it here first people... XD

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 22 May 2009, 16:17

Faustus wrote:The customer chassis issue has been used as a convenient excuse. If Prodrive really wanted to be on the grid in 2008, a deal could have been reached with another team for a deal similar to the Red Bull / Toro Rosso situation. Ecclestone, Mosley and the teams did not say no to customer chassis, they said no to customer chassis in the way that Prodrive wanted to do it. It was a convenient excuse to bail out of a commitment. Another of the 11 teams was not granted the entry could have overtaken that obstacle. The only good thing about it this time around is that he hasn't commited to joining yet.

Didn't Toro Rosso have to settle with Force India last year due to their (alleged) use of a customer chassis? Spyker made a legal action against STR and Super Aguri and to avoid the case going to court, STR decided to pay a couple of millions to Force India, since they inherited everything from the Dutch team.

As for this customer car row, why no one complained when Super Aguri used an old Arrows chassis in 2006? Isn't that a customer car?

I may be wrong, so plese correct me if needed.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 22 May 2009, 16:48

Super Aguri was accepted with old Arrows because Arrows was not racing anymore. That was basically newest available car to start with.

RBR and STR have bought a car from "Red Bull Technologies" or something like that - just a loophole in the rules.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 22 May 2009, 17:10

Bleu wrote:Super Aguri was accepted with old Arrows because Arrows was not racing anymore. That was basically newest available car to start with.

RBR and STR have bought a car from "Red Bull Technologies" or something like that - just a loophole in the rules.

Why haven't the bigger teams caught on to this? OH wait, they're too busy trying to bother Max. I guess nobody cares about customer cars anymore. Except Colin Kolles. But he has a dental career to attend to.

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 22 May 2009, 17:30

Bleu wrote:Super Aguri was accepted with old Arrows because Arrows was not racing anymore. That was basically newest available car to start with.

Yes, ypu're right. It makes perfect sense.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 22 May 2009, 17:47

rffp wrote:
Bleu wrote:Super Aguri was accepted with old Arrows because Arrows was not racing anymore. That was basically newest available car to start with.

Yes, ypu're right. It makes perfect sense.

Super Aguri was allowed to race the (my beloved) old Arrows because Mark Preston bought the IP rights to the cars, two complete cars at auction and the slightly-modified car that Minardi tested. Mark Preston became the Technical Director of Super Aguri and was instrumental in setting up the team.

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 22 May 2009, 19:50

Yes, it's important to distinguish Campos Racing and Barwa Addax, since Adrián Campos sold his GP2 team at the end of last year (I think) to Alejando Agag.

I rather hope that Campos does end up with enough funds to be able to put together his F1 project, since I'm a big fan of Spain, so it would give me a new team to support (I've had no team to support since Minardi disappeared at the end of 2005), but also it would give Spain another reason to supportive of F1, rather than having only Fernando Alonso to get behind.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 22 May 2009, 20:09

Didn't Toro Rosso have to settle with Force India last year due to their (alleged) use of a customer chassis? {rffp - 6 comments ago}

That is correct. Toro Rosso paid a sum of money (believed to be in the single-figure millions) in return for being allowed to use customer cars until the end of 2009. In 2010 no such agreement is in place and in any case, the FIA have made being a constructor a condition of entry.

This is just as well since Colin Kolles, having been booted out of Force India last November, is no longer in a position to influence the debate.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 23 May 2009, 00:13

What fun would it be if the FIA would decide to revert to before the numbering system they started using in 1973, and would give out numbers based on chronological order of application, and Campos would get 1 and 2! :lol:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 23 May 2009, 10:32

Waris wrote:What fun would it be if the FIA would decide to revert to before the numbering system they started using in 1973, and would give out numbers based on chronological order of application, and Campos would get 1 and 2!

In which case Team US F1 will get 3 and 4 !!!

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 23 May 2009, 14:07

dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:What fun would it be if the FIA would decide to revert to before the numbering system they started using in 1973, and would give out numbers based on chronological order of application, and Campos would get 1 and 2!

In which case Team US F1 will get 3 and 4 !!!

Indeed!
(By the way, what kind of a name is "Team US F1"? Even if they would've named it "US F1 Team", it still doesn't have a real name, because "US" is the name of a country (though, I admit, it has good connotations of "us", but as a team name it still sucks). In a fantasy 2010 season that I'm working on now, I've named those cars "Usafi-Cosworths", because I think numbers don't look good in team names.)

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 23 May 2009, 16:11

I thought the name was changed anyway, to USGPE (Grand Prix Engineering)?

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 23 May 2009, 17:35

midgrid wrote:I thought the name was changed anyway, to USGPE (Grand Prix Engineering)?

I thought so too, but one of the gentlemen said it was "Team US F1", when the entry was confirmed today.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 23 May 2009, 22:22

Waris wrote:
midgrid wrote:I thought the name was changed anyway, to USGPE (Grand Prix Engineering)?

I thought so too, but one of the gentlemen said it was "Team US F1", when the entry was confirmed today.

Team name confirmed on the Autosport website:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75525

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 23 May 2009, 22:25

Could F1 become like A1? We already have 'Force India' and now this.

Hardly matters that much anyway. Will fail, I can almost guarantee. Michael Andretti has proved that you can't do anything in F1 if you are based in America.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 24 May 2009, 01:32

shinji wrote:Hardly matters that much anyway. Will fail, I can almost guarantee. Michael Andretti has proved that you can't do anything in F1 if you are based in America.

Except that they're not based in America. Not entirely. Most of their resources will be located there, but they're going to have a smaller European-based operation for the race season, sharing facilities with World Series by Renault and Le Mans Series (and potential F1 entrants, but they're so disorganised and can't cncentrate on one project for long enough to make it work) contenders Epsilon Euskadi, somewhere in Basque country in northern Spain. Toyta attracted criticism for basing themselves in Cologne, but Team US-F1 have been smart about this: Basque country is a stone's throw from two of te three most-used testing circuits, Barcelona and Jerez. And Paul Ricard isn't too far away, either. The closer the are, the less it will cost to get to testing venues and back.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 24 May 2009, 04:58

Captain Hammer wrote:Basque country is a stone's throw from two of te three most-used testing circuits, Barcelona and Jerez. And Paul Ricard isn't too far away, either. The closer the are, the less it will cost to get to testing venues and back.

Don't forget Portimao (aka Algarve)!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 24 May 2009, 05:25

Ah, yes, that too. I forgot about it because while it gets used, it's only brand-new. Jerez, Catalunya and Paul Ricard have existed for years. Decades, even.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 24 May 2009, 14:51

dr-baker wrote:
Waris wrote:
midgrid wrote:I thought the name was changed anyway, to USGPE (Grand Prix Engineering)?

I thought so too, but one of the gentlemen said it was "Team US F1", when the entry was confirmed today.

Team name confirmed on the Autosport website:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75525

I wonder what they're going to name the chassis? Surely not US F1?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 May 2009, 10:51

If we are continuing the car-numbering system from above then so far, in addition to Campos being 1 and 2 and US F1/GP being 3 and 4, Williams will have their late-80's/early-90's numbers of 5 and 6 again and Prodrive 7 and 8. All the confirmed entries to date, with around 12 hours to go...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75671

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 29 May 2009, 13:03

dr-baker wrote:If we are continuing the car-numbering system from above then so far, in addition to Campos being 1 and 2 and US F1/GP being 3 and 4, Williams will have their late-80's/early-90's numbers of 5 and 6 again and Prodrive 7 and 8.

And Lola would get 9 and 10! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75676

Python · Post by **Python** » 29 May 2009, 17:34

Waris wrote:
midgrid wrote:I thought the name was changed anyway, to USGPE (Grand Prix Engineering)?

I thought so too, but one of the gentlemen said it was "Team US F1", when the entry was confirmed today.

It was changed to USGPE for a while until the team submitted their entry into Formula 1, then they could use USF1 but would have to use "Team" in front of it or change the name of it.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 30 May 2009, 09:06

There's some rather staggering news around that bloody March have submitted an entry!

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 3936.shtml

That can't be right, can it?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 May 2009, 11:35

Well, the usual suspects of GP Update and Autosport aren't reporting it. Yet.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 30 May 2009, 19:06

Paul Hayes wrote:There's some rather staggering news around that bloody March have submitted an entry!

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 3936.shtml

That can't be right, can it?

I'm okay with it. Now, if only either Giancarlo or Stoddart stepped up and got Minardi back in the game...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 30 May 2009, 20:28

Deadline for entering has now, I beilieve, passed and Autosport makes no mention of March or Minardi. Imagine if Mosely were indeed involved with a March bid (of which there is absolutely no link other than my pure speculation), what would he do with a foot in both FIA and FOTA camps? In my opinon, and my opinon solely, Heaven Help Us!!!

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 31 May 2009, 02:58

dr-baker wrote:Deadline for entering has now, I beilieve, passed and Autosport makes no mention of March or Minardi. Imagine if Mosely were indeed involved with a March bid (of which there is absolutely no link other than my pure speculation), what would he do with a foot in both FIA and FOTA camps? In my opinon, and my opinon solely, Heaven Help Us!!!

FOTA would be completely nuts to even give such a team membership. It is a pity that the glorious Faenza name didn't pop up but we can (falsely) hope Giancarlo and Paul are considering a bid to take back Toro Rosso.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 31 May 2009, 04:05

Mosely no longer has any association with the name March. Although he was involved in establishing the team in the 1970s, he gave up any invovlement when the team was sold to Akira Akagi in the 1990s and renamed Leyton House. After that, the March name was revived by Andrew Fitton - who submitted the proposal for 2010 - when Leyton House was closed down and Fitton acquired them. Aside from having been fundamental in establishing the team, Max Mosely no longer has any association with it and no influence over it. Besides, I believe there are stronger candidates for the 2010 grid; to me, Prodrive, Team US-F1, Lola Cars and Campos Meta 1 all have stronger cases and it's probably going to come down to them. The loser might buy Toro Rosso or any manufacturer like Renault or Toyota if they indeed withdraw.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 31 May 2009, 08:50

I assumed that he had no further involvement, only what if? I was only speculating if Max were in the position Tony George of the IRL has been in for several years of having his own team and race series (and race track). Not in a good position currently though....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75735

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 31 May 2009, 15:33

Just been on Autosport website and looks like the deadline hasn't passed yet and another team has submitted an entry :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75753

Anybody see this coming?