Your Reject of the Race - Belgium!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 29 Aug 2010, 00:56

The sequential penalty system, where grid penalties are issued in the order they are racked up. This was an issue at Suzuka last year when both Button and Barrichello got five place penalties, but because of the sheer number of people to get them, Barrichello effectviely lost one place and Button five or six. Here, Nico Rosberg has lost only one or two.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 29 Aug 2010, 00:59

Captain Hammer wrote:The sequential penalty system, where grid penalties are issued in the order they are racked up. This was an issue at Suzuka last year when both Button and Barrichello got five place penalties, but because of the sheer number of people to get them, Barrichello effectviely lost one place and Button five or six. Here, Nico Rosberg has lost only one or two.

IIRC it's been a problem for years now (See Malaysia 2006)

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 29 Aug 2010, 01:17

Wizzie wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:The sequential penalty system, where grid penalties are issued in the order they are racked up. This was an issue at Suzuka last year when both Button and Barrichello got five place penalties, but because of the sheer number of people to get them, Barrichello effectviely lost one place and Button five or six. Here, Nico Rosberg has lost only one or two.

IIRC it's been a problem for years now (See Malaysia 2006)

All penalties should be applied at once. Look at Sebastien Buemi - he got a three-place penalty, but other penalties for Schumacher, Rosberg and Glock negated it.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 29 Aug 2010, 05:02

Captain Hammer wrote:All penalties should be applied at once. Look at Sebastien Buemi - he got a three-place penalty, but other penalties for Schumacher, Rosberg and Glock negated it.

Your proposal would make it possible to have 2 cars sharing the same grid position.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 29 Aug 2010, 07:05

J Washburn Stoker wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:All penalties should be applied at once. Look at Sebastien Buemi - he got a three-place penalty, but other penalties for Schumacher, Rosberg and Glock negated it.

Your proposal would make it possible to have 2 cars sharing the same grid position.

Wouldn't the times set then come into effect? Even if they posted identical times whoever set it first would take the higher grid slot.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 29 Aug 2010, 07:15

Wizzie wrote:
IIRC it's been a problem for years now (See Malaysia 2006)

In Malaysia 2006 they made the penalties with sense:

M Schumacher 4th -> 14th
Coulthard 11th -> 19th (can't drop any further)
Barrichello 12th -> 20th (can't drop any further)
Massa 16th -> 21st (can't drop any further)
R Schumacher 10th -> 22nd (engine change after qualifying -> last place)

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 29 Aug 2010, 12:40

A certain S Vettel seems to have taken the pole position for the prestigious award.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 29 Aug 2010, 12:55

Vettel. He can't race.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:01

Sebastian Vettel seems to be the prime candidate.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:37

Vettel v. Button looked like a racing incident, and if you're going to penalize people for botching passing moves, then that sets a bad precedent. Because if you do that, drivers may be less inclined to make those passing moves... especially when you're trying to pass McLewis's wingman, who has been doing all he can to screw you over so Lewis Waaahmilton could win.

Jenson Button getting a fair shot at Lewis Hamilton my arse...

I think ROTR should go to Bruno Senna for being outraced by Sakon Yamamoto and for not capitalizing on what opportunities he had.

Edited my post so it made more sense.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:41

It was a good race. Here are my nominations:

1) Weaving. It's not that I prefer to nominate inanimate objects or the like, but we have seen so much weaving on the whole Kemmel straight today that it has to be considered
2) Me for doing what Kimi Räikkonen used to do when he's late on the grid before being strapped into his cockpit - whilst the Vettel - Button collision happened. This is also the reason why I only saw a replay.
3) Sebastian Vettel: the mistakes of Spa might have cost him the championship. He may well turn out to be the #2 driver of the team because of the points he did not win today

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:43

Cynon wrote:I think ROTR should go to Bruno Senna for being outraced by Sakon Yamamoto and for not capitalizing on what opportunities he had.

He retired a couple of laps in, I don't think that's really fair.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:45

Seb Vettel. Couldn't find enough things to crash into. He's got the speed, but at this stage, not the brains.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:46

Valrys wrote:
Cynon wrote:I think ROTR should go to Bruno Senna for being outraced by Sakon Yamamoto and for not capitalizing on what opportunities he had.

He retired a couple of laps in, I don't think that's really fair.

Spun all by himself and a qualifying run that could have been better. Either way I think he deserves it the most since all the other qualifying candidates undid their bad work with fantastic drives.

I still refuse to give it to Vettel for trying to race Jenson Button. I would have to turn in my racing fandom before I did that.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:46

1. Vettel - he needs to learn to think strategically and understand when he can attack and when he cannot.
2. Alonso - Drove consistently worse than Massa all weekend. His championship challenge is now over.

Special mention:
Rubens Barrichello - 300 races and still lost his car like the greenest of rookies.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:48

Valrys wrote:
Cynon wrote:I think ROTR should go to Bruno Senna for being outraced by Sakon Yamamoto and for not capitalizing on what opportunities he had.

He retired a couple of laps in, I don't think that's really fair.

Yeah. He 360d in the dry all by himself, came back to the pits and they told him to turn it off. I though something broke on his car.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 29 Aug 2010, 13:59

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on Senna, sure it wasn't exactly smart, but I don't think he deserves ROTR.

New candidate, Kubica! For losing 2nd place because "he got distracted" altering settings on his steering wheel as he tooled down the pitlane :lol:

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:00

Valrys wrote:I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on Senna, sure it wasn't exactly smart, but I don't think he deserves ROTR.

New candidate, Kubica! For losing 2nd place because "he got distracted" altering settings on his steering wheel as he tooled down the pitlane

Can we blame it on him texting? Because if we can then I'm all for nominating him. :lol:

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:04

Alonso. Bit of karma there maybe, at least Ferrari were saved a possible position switch if Alonso got behind Massa.
Vettel for going all turkey on jenson. Maybe he should go to rallying. he's fast, but like people have said, he just can't race in close proximity to people.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:06

1) Sebastian Vettel: Passing in the wet at Spa requires strategy, and honestly that kind of pass that he tried to pull of was in my opinion, dumb. Running into Liuzzi reinforces my thought that he does not have the maturity for F1. He isn't Schumacher.

2) Fernando Alonso: Out driven by Massa, putting on the wrong set of tires (though that's more of a Ferrari issue), and then losing it late in the race.

3) Rubens Barrichello: Yes everyone went into the runoff but he was going WAY too quickly. For someone who raced 300 GPs this was rather embarrassing to look at really.

Post by **mario** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:15

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Valrys wrote:
Cynon wrote:I think ROTR should go to Bruno Senna for being outraced by Sakon Yamamoto and for not capitalizing on what opportunities he had.

He retired a couple of laps in, I don't think that's really fair.

Yeah. He 360d in the dry all by himself, came back to the pits and they told him to turn it off. I though something broke on his car.

I guess that we will have to wait until the official results come out, but I suspect that something might have been damaged on the car, because after that spin, he drive back quite cautiously to the pits. If there was some sort of mechanical failure, then we can probably count him out of the ROTR.

Cynon wrote:Spun all by himself and a qualifying run that could have been better. Either way I think he deserves it the most since all the other qualifying candidates undid their bad work with fantastic drives.

I still refuse to give it to Vettel for trying to race Jenson Button. I would have to turn in my racing fandom before I did that.

Even taking that out of consideration (and considering that Vettel accepts that he did make a bad mistake), he had a very scruffy race - the collision with Liuzzi ruined any chance of a recovery once he went a lap down. Then, when he switched to the full wets (when he should have gone onto inters), he burned the tyres out by trying to make up too much time, and had to make another stop for tyres - and all the time, he was bitching like mad at the team for giving him full wets (although I think that he had a point, because they should have given him inters - assuming, that is, he had any fresh sets left).

As for Rubens, it was certainly unfortunate, and it is a little surprising that he didn't put Alonso out on the spot, given how hard he hit Alonso. I guess that being on the harder tyre didn't pay off in the end, because those tyres must have been stone cold going into that corner, hence the lock up. Even so, on a weekend where he is getting so much attention, it was a miserable end to his race.

But, there are still a few more nominees, and for me the worst was De La Rosa. Skidding off the track and blowing a points scoring position is reject worthy, considering that he wasn't under pressure at the time (Alguersuari was still a few seconds back from him at the time). There is also the point that De La Rosa had to take another engine for the race, I think in part due to the accident he had during qualifying - so he is onto his 9th engine (which isn't good news for Monza, or indeed for the rest of the season). But even then, he just couldn't hold onto Kobayashi, and was outpaced by him all throught the race.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:17

Dan B wrote:1) Sebastian Vettel: Passing in the wet at Spa requires strategy, and honestly that kind of pass that he tried to pull of was in my opinion, dumb. Running into Liuzzi reinforces my thought that he does not have the maturity for F1. He isn't Schumacher.

2) Fernando Alonso: Out driven by Massa, putting on the wrong set of tires (though that's more of a Ferrari issue), and then losing it late in the race.

3) Rubens Barrichello: Yes everyone went into the runoff but he was going WAY too quickly. For someone who raced 300 GPs this was rather embarrassing to look at really.

I'll echo the above nominations, though I do think the penalty for Vettel was harsh. Since when has getting it wrong on a sudden piece of wet track been grounds for penalising someone? I'm not sure I'd trust Nige to be the most impartial of stewards. I wonder if Vettel had taken out Alonso, for example, there would have been a penalty.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:18

I'm going to have to nominate Vettel. I mean, come on, what was he thinking?! If Enoch does not agree, he misses out on a merited chance at patriotically ridiculising Mark Webber's teammate and title rival.

Honorable mention goes to Alonso. Hamilton and Trulli also had rather daft actions.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:21

Alonso was unusually poor, but he was very unlucky to get taken out at the Bus Stop when he was one of the few taking the corner correctly. I don't know how his car survived that!

De la Rosa is another candidate - terrible mistakes in qualifying and the race for someone who has been around as long as he has.

My vote goes to Vettel - he is once again showing he is still lacking the racecraft to be a champion.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:27

Vettel - he made more blunders than all the other candidates put together I thought!

Instant Mash · Post by **Instant Mash** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:30

Vettel. I will concede that his first incident was due to the rain rather than much error on his part. But the second one was definitely just getting a bit over-aggressive. Again, he proved that outright speed has nothing on consistency.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:32

Part of the reason Barrichello looked as being too quick into the corner is that he was running on hard tyres opposed to the rest of the field on softs. He probably started to break as soon as the others, but his tyres hadn't the same grip. Of course he should have been aware of that, but if he had braked much earlier then is sure that someone would have crashed against his back and we would be giving him ROTR for braking so early. :mrgreen:

Vettel is a clear candidate for ROTR. Special mention to De la Rosa for throwing away a well-fought 10th place. It's possible that Alguersuari would have taken him in the final lap, as the rain stopped and the full wets began to disintegrate, but it remains true that he went off on his own.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 29 Aug 2010, 14:37

Don't always vote in this thread; but am going to nominate Vettel at least partly for the cumulative effect of brainless attacks on others. On UK TV, prior to the race, they showed his off the line attack on Webber which was pretty close to putting WEB into the pit wall a la SCH/BAR.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 29 Aug 2010, 15:18

Waris wrote:I'm going to have to nominate Vettel. I mean, come on, what was he thinking?! If Enoch does not agree, he misses out on a merited chance at patriotically ridiculising Mark Webber's teammate and title rival.

Honorable mention goes to Alonso. Hamilton and Trulli also had rather daft actions.

At the risk of sounding like Hamilton's fanboy, him dropping it wasn't all that rejectful. First on the road, too much water, hard slicks, the McLaren this year is notoriously hard of suspensions, he skidded off the bump.

As for Truli, that was an EPIC 360.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 29 Aug 2010, 16:48

Vettell. Thats the second race in a row he has thrown away. To many mistakes for a championship challenger.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 29 Aug 2010, 16:57

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Waris wrote:I'm going to have to nominate Vettel. I mean, come on, what was he thinking?! If Enoch does not agree, he misses out on a merited chance at patriotically ridiculising Mark Webber's teammate and title rival.

Honorable mention goes to Alonso. Hamilton and Trulli also had rather daft actions.

At the risk of sounding like Hamilton's fanboy, him dropping it wasn't all that rejectful. First on the road, too much water, hard slicks, the McLaren this year is notoriously hard of suspensions, he skidded off the bump.

As for Truli, that was an EPIC 360.

the hulk also caught a pretty good spin trying to stay out on slicks in the later stages, it was impressive :lol:

And a ROTR mention has to go to barrichello for celebrating his 300th gp by slamming one in the side of the most successful team he's driven with! We all love rubens, but I wasn't expecting his race to go smoothly as is often his problem

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 29 Aug 2010, 17:01

Sebastian Vettel by a hundred of country miles.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 29 Aug 2010, 17:47

Well this is easy...

Sebastian Vettel
His altercation with Button may have been a 'racing incident' however that would have been a pathetic excuse for an overtaking attempted had he not binned it anyway. Pulling a switchback move to the outside a couple of metres from the braking zone is just plain stupid really, the degree of the chicane at the bus stop makes it a pointless move as there's no way you'll have the inside line for the second part of the corner. The only corners at Spa you can overtake around the outside of are Les Combes and Rivage (if you're much quicker that is). Other than that going around the outside will never work. He deserved the drive-through penalty for that. The Liuzzi altercation wasn't entirely his fault (there was a bit more room for Liuzzi to wait before making turn in) but it was quite an aggressive move.
The learning curve hasn't finished for Vettel yet it seems, he's lacking some proper racecraft for moving through traffic effectively.

Post by **mario** » 29 Aug 2010, 19:01

patrick wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Waris wrote:I'm going to have to nominate Vettel. I mean, come on, what was he thinking?! If Enoch does not agree, he misses out on a merited chance at patriotically ridiculising Mark Webber's teammate and title rival.

Honorable mention goes to Alonso. Hamilton and Trulli also had rather daft actions.

At the risk of sounding like Hamilton's fanboy, him dropping it wasn't all that rejectful. First on the road, too much water, hard slicks, the McLaren this year is notoriously hard of suspensions, he skidded off the bump.

As for Truli, that was an EPIC 360.

the hulk also caught a pretty good spin trying to stay out on slicks in the later stages, it was impressive

And a ROTR mention has to go to barrichello for celebrating his 300th gp by slamming one in the side of the most successful team he's driven with! We all love rubens, but I wasn't expecting his race to go smoothly as is often his problem

I think that if Hamilton had ended up getting stuck in the gravel trap, that would have been reject worthy (and there would inevitably have been comparisons with the 2007 Chinese GP), and had Hulkenberg tried to stay out any longer on the slicks, that would have been reject worthy, as he could very easily have crashed (he couldn't apply any throttle, and unlike the beginning of the race, the rain wasn't getting any lighter - I can see the logic of the gamble, but it wasn't going to pay off that time around).
But, Hamilton kept on going, and Hulkenberg made it back to the pits in one piece, so in both cases, they didn't completely cock it up, as they didn't actually loose much (Hamilton was still ahead of Kubica, and Hulkenberg didn't loose any places as a result of his spin). Foolhardy, yes, but not reject worthy.

As for Rubens, his action is potenially reject worthy, because he ruined his chance of a potentially quite good points finish - he was on the same strategy as Rosberg and Schumacher, and they managed to make it work very well. Rubens could have been in 6th at least, and potentially higher, had he managed to stay on the road and ahead of the Mercedes cars (which he probably could have). As it is, instead of pressuring Force India in the WCC, Williams have dropped to 17 points behind FI today, thanks to Sutil's 5th and Liuzzi's 10th place (following Alguersuari's penalty).

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 29 Aug 2010, 19:41

Easily Sebastian Vettel. He rammed in Button, got a drive-thru, then rammed into Sutil while in frustration. I originally thought it was going to be the BMW Sauber pit crew as they weren't ready for putting tires on someone (I forget who

).

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 29 Aug 2010, 19:47

JeremyMcClean wrote:Easily Sebastian Vettel. He rammed in Button, got a drive-thru, then clipped Liuzzi while in frustration. I originally thought it was going to be the BMW Sauber pit crew as they weren't ready for putting tires on someone (I forget who ).

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 29 Aug 2010, 19:57

JeremyMcClean wrote:Easily Sebastian Vettel. He rammed in Button, got a drive-thru, then clipped Liuzzi while in frustration. I originally thought it was going to be the BMW Sauber pit crew as they weren't ready for putting tires on someone (I forget who ).

ha, I remember that now, it was kobayashi-the tv cut to him up on the jacks with no wheels on and I lol'd

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 29 Aug 2010, 21:03

Vettel

danardif1 · Post by **danardif1** » 29 Aug 2010, 21:14

Vettel... just like Martin Whitmarsh says, he is making errors that we usually see in F3... and to be in the best Grand Prix car of the last 5 years and still not have led the championship at any point in the last two years is ridiculous...

This isn't just because I'm a Button fan, it's because Vettel is lauded as this future champion... if he can't win it in the best car, what hope has he got when a Hamilton, Alonso or Button gets their hands on one (well we know what happens when Button gets one from last year)? These are the real top names in F1 and he can't beat them in his rocket ship!!!

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 29 Aug 2010, 21:21

many people wrote:Vettel

²