BMW's future in Formula 1 is in serious doubt tonight amid mounting speculation that the German car manufacturer will announce its withdrawal from the sport at the end of this season, on Wednesday.
An emergency press conference has been called at BMW's headquarters in Munich, where it is suggested that the car company may reveal that it has decided to end its involvement in F1.
The invite to the press conference said it had been called because of 'current developments in motor sport.'
If this is so, two of F1's best quoted drivers (OK, argue away if you will) will find themselves out of a seat for 2010 all of a sudden - and with Ferrari needing a good driver quickly, this might come into play - use Kubica to push Raikkonen, and when Massa's back put the best on his seat? Dream come true.
I imagine they have a buyer lined up. The team will probably go on under new management. If this is the end of BMW in F1, then I think the project has been failure. To spend so much money and to win only 1 race is a poor show and this year's car has been a disaster. Although its odd that BMW are quitting now given that they played such a big role in the FOTA-FIA wars, helped FOTA win and agreed in principle a plan to cut costs dramatically over the next two years. Why did they bother?
hclw wrote:I imagine they have a buyer lined up. The team will probably go on under new management. If this is the end of BMW in F1, then I think the project has been failure. To spend so much money and to win only 1 race is a poor show and this year's car has been a disaster. Although its odd that BMW are quitting now given that they played such a big role in the FOTA-FIA wars, helped FOTA win and agreed in principle a plan to cut costs dramatically over the next two years. Why did they bother?
Because a) the money they had put in was a sunk cost, and b) their team is much less valuable with a neutered F1.
hclw wrote:I imagine they have a buyer lined up. The team will probably go on under new management. If this is the end of BMW in F1, then I think the project has been failure. To spend so much money and to win only 1 race is a poor show and this year's car has been a disaster. Although its odd that BMW are quitting now given that they played such a big role in the FOTA-FIA wars, helped FOTA win and agreed in principle a plan to cut costs dramatically over the next two years. Why did they bother?
Because a) the money they had put in was a sunk cost, and b) their team is much less valuable with a neutered F1.
Good points, both of them. I'd simply ask that the decision to support FOTA was probably made at team level, while the decision to potentially pull the plug on the team, if indeed that is the case, is probably done at company management level.
This is a little bit Honda style. The failure of a car that they have right now is doing more harm than good to BMW's image. If they can't be sure that they'll go back to the top3 next year, this may be a wise decision.
Henrique wrote:This is a little bit Honda style. The failure of a car that they have right now is doing more harm than good to BMW's image. If they can't be sure that they'll go back to the top3 next year, this may be a wise decision.
Maybe they'll give it back to Peter Sauber.
The guy's name is still on that team for a reason, I suppose.
I hope they allow Peter Sauber to retake control of Hinwii based factory and rerun as Sauber.
We all were expecting this. And we thought Max Mosley was fool to get costs down. BMW, Renault and Toyota are not dedicated to F1!! Hence Max Mosley's idea to get new teams was crucial, hopefully people will get my point now!!
"Current Developments" almost suggests some kind of direct reaction to Surtees/Massa, as if they've suddenly realised that in addition to poor results, there's the potential for someone to die in one of their cars.
I'm also still very much expecting Toyota to pull the plug soon. Even at the beginning of the year, it had been made apparent that the board's position wasa "If you don't win this year, you don't play next year", and I still don't see where a Toyota win would be coming from.
I coined the term "Lewisteria". The irony is that I actually quite like Lewis Hamilton.
Yep, just seen the News. Does this mean that "Sauber" will remain, and that it's only the engine supplier which are going, or is the team going to dissappear together?
Nin13 wrote:I hope they allow Peter Sauber to retake control of Hinwii based factory and rerun as Sauber.
We all were expecting this. And we thought Max Mosley was fool to get costs down. BMW, Renault and Toyota are not dedicated to F1!! Hence Max Mosley's idea to get new teams was crucial, hopefully people will get my point now!!
I mostly agree with that, but not that Max's way f doing things did any good for the situation.
Let me just say I expected Renault, first, and Toyota, second, to pull the plug. Seriously, I didn't really expect BMW.
Being one of the world's biggest BMW fans I am shcoked at the decision. I would have thought Toyota or Reggie would have disappeared first. Now if the team itself is pulling out and not just the BMW engines who will be the team to replace them next season? And if the engine supplier (Which I would be inclined to believe since it's called BMW Sauber for a reason I think) would Peter Sauber have the chance or even want his team back? And either way who will be the new engine supplier next year?
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I really thought that Toyota would jump ship before BMW did. I wonder if any of the people who didn't get one of the new 2010 entries will try to swoop in and buy the team?
The major car manufacturers price the privateers out of the sport, a global recession happens. Then any major car manufcaturer not with a chance of winning or performing respectably considers pulling out of the sport to cut costs.
That's what happens when you let an organisation like FOTA come into being to attempt to dictate terms to the people supposedly running the sport. Renault, BMW and Toyota have just poured a huge effort to try and dampen the reform of costs, yet those teams might not even exist in Formula 1 in the near future. What say should they have? Very little.
And did anyone seriously believe those teams would participate in a less prestigious breakaway series given they're under pressure from the execs at the top on the amount they're already wasting in being also-rans as well as crappy fair weather teams?
We have to try and return to a sport competed by privateers or teams with long term commitments to the art and the spectacle of Motor Racing. These major manufacturers gradually hollow the sport out with their spending power and then flee like rats in the face of economic hardships they're better placed than any other car companies to weather. Screw them.
jackanderton wrote:The major car manufacturers price the privateers out of the sport, a global recession happens. Then any major car manufcaturer not with a chance of winning or performing respectably considers pulling out of the sport to cut costs.
That's what happens when you let an organisation like FOTA come into being to attempt to dictate terms to the people supposedly running the sport. Renault, BMW and Toyota have just poured a huge effort to try and dampen the reform of costs, yet those teams might not even exist in Formula 1 in the near future. What say should they have? Very little.
And did anyone seriously believe those teams would participate in a less prestigious breakaway series given they're under pressure from the execs at the top on the amount they're already wasting in being also-rans as well as crappy fair weather teams?
We have to try and return to a sport competed by privateers or teams with long term commitments to the art and the spectacle of Motor Racing. These major manufacturers gradually hollow the sport out with their spending power and then flee like rats in the face of economic hardships they're better placed than any other car companies to weather. Screw them.
IMHO there is a lot to be said for these sentiments.
If, as some here have suggested, Toyota and Renault follow BMW towards the 'exit' sign, then all the FOTA/breakaway series nonsense will appear even more stupid than it already is. I agree with Jordan192 - since Bahrain, where has a Toyota victory looked like coming from? And Renault surely cannot be impressed with what happened post-Hungary.
And you know what? Whisper it ... in the end Max may well be vindicated ...
I guess if Toyota and Renault had withdrawal in the pipeline then it would be a damn sight easier to announce now. If they've signed up to next year can they be fined for withdrawing?
Next years signitures are still conditional from the FOTA IIRC.
TBH, I don't see the point in them bothering to complete the season. Its not like they are going to develop the car, they have already been passed by Force India and a fighting with STR. Might aswell give up now, then at least Obi Wan can drive the Renault and Bobby K can drive the Ferrari.
The FIA regrets the announcement of BMW’s intended withdrawal from Formula 1 but is not surprised by it.
It has been clear for some time that motor sport cannot ignore the world economic crisis. Car manufacturers cannot be expected to continue to pour large sums of money into Formula I when their survival depends on redundancies, plant closures and the support of the taxpayer.
This is why the FIA prepared regulations to reduce costs drastically. These measures were needed to alleviate the pressure on manufacturers following Honda's withdrawal but also to make it possible for new teams to enter.
Had these regulations not been so strongly opposed by a number of team principals, the withdrawal of BMW and further such announcements in the future might have been avoided.
Nevertheless, as a result of a sustained cost-cutting campaign by the FIA, new measures are in the process of being agreed which should make it easier for new teams to enter and enable existing ones to participate on much reduced budgets.
It is no secret that these measures do not go as far as the FIA would have liked but a compromise was needed in the interests of harmony in the sport. Hopefully it will be enough to prevent further withdrawals and provide a solid foundation for Formula One.
As the guardian of the sport, the FIA is committed to ensuring that Formula One remains financially sustainable for all competing teams and it will always act to ensure that this remains the case
The very measures these suffering teams not only vehemently opposed but threatened to end Formula 1 as we know it rather than have to stomach.
Strikes me as similar sort of behaviour to the bankers who got bailed out, and then demanded complete control over the terms and conditions for the privilege of saving their arses.
This is the mentality of big business, they consider themselves above everything. The sport only has itself to blame for getting all starry-eyed when they came along with big pots of cash though.
JDOD wrote:Next years signitures are still conditional from the FOTA IIRC.
TBH, I don't see the point in them bothering to complete the season. Its not like they are going to develop the car, they have already been passed by Force India and a fighting with STR. Might aswell give up now, then at least Obi Wan can drive the Renault and Bobby K can drive the Ferrari.
Now the FIA is like "you dumb FOTA bastards, you just should've accepted the new rules and not start whining". I would've been interested to see how any of the teams could have cut 50-70% from their budget if the budget cap would have taken place as first meant...
Eurosport broadcast for the 1990 Mexican GP prequalifying: "The Life, it looked very lifeless yet again... in fact Bruno did one, slow lap"
JDOD wrote:Max's policies were never the main problem. It was always his pathetic attitude.
Bingo! Someone give that man a beer.
Bingo indeed. And the FIA press announcement this week shows that Max still doesn't understand that his cack-handed method of negotiation was part of the problem.
"Other than the car behind and the driver who might get a bit startled with the sudden explosion in front, it really isn't a major safety issue from that point of view,"
The way I see it so far is: BMW are withdrawing because the results are not matching expectations (set in part by last year's relative success). So why does the FIA think money is the be all and end all?
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
JDOD wrote:Max's policies were never the main problem. It was always his pathetic attitude.
Bingo! Someone give that man a beer.
Bingo indeed. And the FIA press announcement this week shows that Max still doesn't understand that his cack-handed method of negotiation was part of the problem.
Yes I can agree with JDOD, Carlos and Mr Prawn. But despite Max's lack of diplomacy, he's had a point all the way through ...
Whoever takes it over will probably ditch the Sauber name completely, i got the impression that keeping it was just to adopt a bit of heritage after reading something saying Peter Sauber would peroxide his hair if they won a race in exchange for keeping his name in the team
eytl wrote:Yes I can agree with JDOD, Carlos and Mr Prawn. But despite Max's lack of diplomacy, he's had a point all the way through ...
Maybe, maybe not. The teams knew they couldn't go on haemoraging cash. Without max's dictatorial governence they may have decided to stay. I can't imagine they are overly thrilled a the idea of having The Toad in charge.
The main thing now is what happens to the team. There was no comment about the future of the team, so I wonder if there is still a possibility that it will carry on, under a different owner. Or maybe BMW will keep the facilities and some of the personnel and start manufacturing the Formula BMW cars in-house, instead of sub-contracting them to Mygale.
Following Formula 1 since 1984. Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews. Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
eytl wrote:Yes I can agree with JDOD, Carlos and Mr Prawn. But despite Max's lack of diplomacy, he's had a point all the way through ...
Maybe, maybe not. The teams knew they couldn't go on haemoraging cash. Without max's dictatorial governence they may have decided to stay. I can't imagine they are overly thrilled a the idea of having The Toad in charge.
Oh, he's had - that's for sure. The fact is everyone knew someone was going to pull out this year, hot on Honda's heels. They knew F1 had to go back to the privateer team model - note how Brawn, Red Bull, Williams and Force 1ndia are better this year. The standardizing of components does this, and the fact they're teams that know they have to work on a tight budget probably helps them focus on what's important and reaps the biggest benefits with the lowest costs.
I also supposed BMW has decided this some time ago, and so they have been sort of quiet inside the FOTA - unlike Ferrari, Toyota or Renault. Their hand was forced by the coming together with the Concorde Agreement; they had to pull out now or sign up for the next 3 years.
Here is hoping that BMW will keep the Hinwil-based team and head on over to Le Mans.
Apparently, Peter Sauber still owns a stake in the team and when he sold it to BMW, he was happy to see it in good hands, since he was going to retire anyway. He is in his 60s now and it's rather questionable if they can talk him out of retirement for a management buyout. I think he'd rather take the team into a different series.
Pulling out may not be possible though, since they have already made a conditional entry with FIA for 2010.
"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn. "You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
Yannick wrote:Apparently, Peter Sauber still owns a stake in the team and when he sold it to BMW, he was happy to see it in good hands, since he was going to retire anyway. He is in his 60s now and it's rather questionable if they can talk him out of retirement for a management buyout. I think he'd rather take the team into a different series.
Peter Sauber indeed owns a 20% stake, by the way he's not completely retired, he's still with the team at most (all?) race weekends as an 'advisor' or something. I expect him to buy the team, maybe in cooperation with Joan Villadelprat or Gerhard Berger, and rename it Sauber. They would have to use Cosworth engines for next season, or maybe Ferrari or Mercedes, but that's unlikely to happen.
This accentuates the problem with manufacturer teams instead of privateers. When they aren't winning, they pull out, unless they're Dodge (and every Mopar person out there knows how much of a thrashing they're getting in NASCAR), but when the manufacturers weren't getting thoroughly thrashed by the privateers, the privateers stuck around, or manufacturers just identified themselves with a privateer. See: McLaren and Honda, Mercedes...
Cynon wrote:This accentuates the problem with manufacturer teams instead of privateers. When they aren't winning, they pull out, unless they're Dodge (and every Mopar person out there knows how much of a thrashing they're getting in NASCAR), but when the manufacturers weren't getting thoroughly thrashed by the privateers, the privateers stuck around, or manufacturers just identified themselves with a privateer. See: McLaren and Honda, Mercedes...
and this was the problem they ran into when Max and the FIA demanded they all sign guarantees to compete for the next 3 years before they would even talk to them.............Ferrari seem to be the only Manufactuere who have any long term interest in Formula 1...
