Tracks you would like to see again or appear in F1 Thread

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Mar 2013, 21:43

This thread is meant for your opinion on which tracks you would like to see in the Formula 1 World Championship, either back on the World Championship calendar after an absence from the calendar, or a completely new event (on an existent track, no new tracks) that may be an interesting site for an F1 race. You may come up with as many rejectful events as you like, and try to be logical and creative. I will be interested to see what ideas you come up with. Here are my picks:

For returning to the schedule: Either Paul Ricard or the Osterreichring/A-1 Ring/Red Bull Ring (I keep confusing myself.)

For being a newcomer to the schedule: Laguna Seca. Hey, this track was considered for F1 in 1989 before choosing the totally rejectful Phoenix track because the track was "too remote."

What are your ideas?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Mar 2013, 22:14

As I have said once or twice on here before (including my first ever post back in the day!), I would love to see the Manx TT Mountain circuit on the calendar. 37.73 miles (approx 61 km), lap record around 17 minutes/131 mph. A typical race distance of 190 miles could be done in 5 laps... Imagine what qualifying would be like! That would require a return to the one-hour format, and you would be lucky to get in more than two flying laps - if the Pirellis would last that long... Alternatively, and slightly more realistically for ridiculously long tracks, would be the 8-mile La Sarthe, because we all know F1 won't return to the Nordschleife...

And Bremgarten, but that would require a law change, plus a lot of rebuilding, I should imagine.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Mar 2013, 22:29

dr-baker wrote:As I have said once or twice on here before (including my first ever post back in the day!), I would love to see the Manx TT Mountain circuit on the calendar. 37.73 miles (approx 61 km), lap record around 17 minutes/131 mph. A typical race distance of 190 miles could be done in 5 laps... Imagine what qualifying would be like! That would require a return to the one-hour format, and you would be lucky to get in more than two flying laps - if the Pirellis would last that long... Alternatively, and slightly more realistically for ridiculously long tracks, would be the 8-mile La Sarthe, because we all know F1 won't return to the Nordschleife...

And Bremgarten, but that would require a law change, plus a lot of rebuilding, I should imagine.

I would love to see longer tracks, but with the strict FIA regulations on circuits, I doubt longer circuits than Spa will appear. Quite sad, really.

On a different note, your ideas are not that bad. If only the FIA weren't so strict with circuits...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Mar 2013, 22:51

go_Rubens wrote:
dr-baker wrote:As I have said once or twice on here before (including my first ever post back in the day!), I would love to see the Manx TT Mountain circuit on the calendar. 37.73 miles (approx 61 km), lap record around 17 minutes/131 mph. A typical race distance of 190 miles could be done in 5 laps... Imagine what qualifying would be like! That would require a return to the one-hour format, and you would be lucky to get in more than two flying laps - if the Pirellis would last that long... Alternatively, and slightly more realistically for ridiculously long tracks, would be the 8-mile La Sarthe, because we all know F1 won't return to the Nordschleife...

And Bremgarten, but that would require a law change, plus a lot of rebuilding, I should imagine.

I would love to see longer tracks, but with the strict FIA regulations on circuits, I doubt longer circuits than Spa will appear. Quite sad, really.

On a different note, your ideas are not that bad. If only the FIA weren't so strict with circuits...

Wonder if La Sarthe would work on the same weekend as the 24 Hours? Marshalling presumably wouldn't be too much of a problem, nor rescue crews...

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Mar 2013, 22:57

dr-baker wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
dr-baker wrote:As I have said once or twice on here before (including my first ever post back in the day!), I would love to see the Manx TT Mountain circuit on the calendar. 37.73 miles (approx 61 km), lap record around 17 minutes/131 mph. A typical race distance of 190 miles could be done in 5 laps... Imagine what qualifying would be like! That would require a return to the one-hour format, and you would be lucky to get in more than two flying laps - if the Pirellis would last that long... Alternatively, and slightly more realistically for ridiculously long tracks, would be the 8-mile La Sarthe, because we all know F1 won't return to the Nordschleife...

And Bremgarten, but that would require a law change, plus a lot of rebuilding, I should imagine.

I would love to see longer tracks, but with the strict FIA regulations on circuits, I doubt longer circuits than Spa will appear. Quite sad, really.

On a different note, your ideas are not that bad. If only the FIA weren't so strict with circuits...

Wonder if La Sarthe would work on the same weekend as the 24 Hours? Marshalling presumably wouldn't be too much of a problem, nor rescue crews...

The F1 race would have to be late in the day Sunday or early Saturday morning. Only the Sunday afternoon idea would work as long as the FIA aren't total idiots about the idea of a very wet race. I agree about the marshalling and rescue crews.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Mar 2013, 23:07

Can anybody tell me how much of La Sarthe is floodlit, and how much reliance there is on the cars' headlights (the sportscars, obviously, not the single-seaters...)? Not all the track is lit, is it? So F1 couldn't go into Sunday dusk?

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Mar 2013, 23:11

dr-baker wrote:Can anybody tell me how much of La Sarthe is floodlit, and how much reliance there is on the cars' headlights (the sportscars, obviously, not the single-seaters...)? Not all the track is lit, is it? So F1 couldn't go into Sunday dusk?

There are random places where there are floodlights but not on the whole 13.7 km. The headlights on the sportscars are very bright, and the few floodlights don't make any difference for the most part.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Mar 2013, 23:11

How about a race at Mount Panorama?

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Mar 2013, 23:19

Wizzie wrote:How about a race at Mount Panorama?

That race would be crazy. I would be all for it though. The mountain would see plenty of action, plus there are two long straights and the Chase. That would be excitement. Plus, the race would be at Australia's most famous track apart from Melbourne, and Melbourne may not even stay on the calendar.

On the bad side, the FIA may want asphalt runoff at the top of the mountain, but there is no chance in hell that'll happen.

Hound55 · Post by **Hound55** » 27 Mar 2013, 00:33

For me it would have to be Watkins Glen. Cool track with plenty of elevation changes. Loads of history too. Plus it's relatively close to my house. Not as close as Indy, but I never liked Indy anyway.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 27 Mar 2013, 00:45

Paul Ricard or Magny Cours. either one could have one almighty DRS Drag-strip with one hell of a passing corner immediately following.
also Indianapolis, but not the old layout with those two lazy hairpins, the new one that Grand Am just used. the first DRS zone would be the infield straight between turns 7 and 8, the second is a no-brainer, starting just before or in the middle of the final corner in the banking and running aaallll the way down the front straight. THAT would be awesome.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 00:54

Hound55 wrote:For me it would have to be Watkins Glen. Cool track with plenty of elevation changes. Loads of history too. Plus it's relatively close to my house. Not as close as Indy, but I never liked Indy anyway.

Too bad Bernie only wants Tilke tracks to bring F1 to a country. Tilke has too many tracks that are basically identical. I would love to see the Glen back. It has asphalt runoff like most of today's tracks. It has some good safety features that bring the Glen up to code. Why not? By the way, if F1 returns to the Glen, I live in a neighboring state, fairly close, so the race would be a no-brainer for me. Should F1 return to the Glen? I am all for it. COTA is good, but the Glen is better.

The best way to solve Bernie's issue with finding the perfect replacement for the Glen? Just go back!

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 00:55

nome66 wrote:Paul Ricard or Magny Cours. either one could have one almighty DRS Drag-strip with one hell of a passing corner immediately following.
also Indianapolis, but not the old layout with those two lazy hairpins, the new one that Grand Am just used. the first DRS zone would be the infield straight between turns 7 and 8, the second is a no-brainer, starting just before or in the middle of the final corner in the banking and running aaallll the way down the front straight. THAT would be awesome.

Agreed!

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 27 Mar 2013, 03:15

Hound55 wrote:For me it would have to be Watkins Glen. Cool track with plenty of elevation changes. Loads of history too. Plus it's relatively close to my house. Not as close as Indy, but I never liked Indy anyway.

And not a track like the Detroit GP course in downtown Detroit where a driver could make it into the points just by avoiding the walls.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 19:58

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Hound55 wrote:For me it would have to be Watkins Glen. Cool track with plenty of elevation changes. Loads of history too. Plus it's relatively close to my house. Not as close as Indy, but I never liked Indy anyway.

And not a track like the Detroit GP course in downtown Detroit where a driver could make it into the points just by avoiding the walls.

And not like COTA where you gain an advantage by going off the track. Today's tracks have way too much asphalt runoff.

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 27 Mar 2013, 20:09

Apparently the FIA has a limit on the corner setup each track has to have in regards to the first corner, if the first image on this wikipedia page is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_course

Does this fact shed any light on how modern race courses under the FIA have changed over the years?

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 20:21

CaptainGetz12 wrote:Apparently the FIA has a limit on the corner setup each track has to have in regards to the first corner, if the first image on this wikipedia page is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_course

Does this fact shed any light on how modern race courses under the FIA have changed over the years?

I even wonder if this rule was enforced when F1 last ran the old Spa (even though the track was changed for safety reasons) because I don't think Eau Rouge was a 45 degree angle in any part of the corner. I don't know of any tracks that were changed due to the reason of a corner not making FIA specifications besides maybe the redesign of the Monza first chicane in 2000 (if the former right hand kink was considered a corner.)

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 27 Mar 2013, 21:15

CaptainGetz12 wrote:Apparently the FIA has a limit on the corner setup each track has to have in regards to the first corner, if the first image on this wikipedia page is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_course

Does this fact shed any light on how modern race courses under the FIA have changed over the years?

Looking further down the article gave me an idea: what if F1 raced at the Nardò Ring? Not the giant circle, the course in the forested southern part of the circle. I'd rather see a race there than Valencia, although to be fair that applies to any track.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 21:25

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
CaptainGetz12 wrote:Apparently the FIA has a limit on the corner setup each track has to have in regards to the first corner, if the first image on this wikipedia page is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_course

Does this fact shed any light on how modern race courses under the FIA have changed over the years?

Looking further down the article gave me an idea: what if F1 raced at the Nardò Ring? Not the giant circle, the course in the forested southern part of the circle. I'd rather see a race there than Valencia, although to be fair that applies to any track.

Anyone would not want to watch a race at Valencia. Boring track.

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 27 Mar 2013, 21:57

I have a bizarre idea:

How about looking at some of the courses and drive them in the reverse direction and if that changes anything?

For some reason I think that Valencia would be better in the reverse direction because yo would be taking the first few corners (now last few corners) considerably faster. I also think that the Indian Grand Prix and Shanghai course would have been a better course if in reverse as well.

Course this goes against the FIA first corner rules I pointed out, but if we put that aside I think some courses could be more interesting if raced in reverse

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 22:03

CaptainGetz12 wrote:I have a bizarre idea:

How about looking at some of the courses and drive them in the reverse direction and if that changes anything?

For some reason I think that Valencia would be better in the reverse direction because yo would be taking the first few corners (now last few corners) considerably faster. I also think that the Indian Grand Prix would have been a better course if in reverse as well.

Course this goes against the FIA first corner rules I pointed out, but if we put that aside I think some courses could be more interesting if raced in reverse

How about Spa in reverse? The course would be an uphill climb and Eau Rouge backwards would be beast with the barriers up against the track. But, that may be a bad idea. What do you think?

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 27 Mar 2013, 22:19

Pescara!

PS Not really. Though a triangle shaped track would be nice.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 22:26

Barbazza wrote:Pescara!

PS Not really. Though a triangle shaped track would be nice.

Interesting choice in Pescara. What an odd race that would be.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 27 Mar 2013, 23:00

Barbazza wrote:Pescara!

PS Not really. Though a triangle shaped track would be nice.

I'd like to see a super long-distance track back on the calendar. F1 at de la Sarthe in particular would be awesome.

Post by **mario** » 27 Mar 2013, 23:07

dr-baker wrote:Wonder if La Sarthe would work on the same weekend as the 24 Hours? Marshalling presumably wouldn't be too much of a problem, nor rescue crews...

I am fairly sure that the ACO has made it clear that it would not, under any circumstances, want F1 to steal the limelight from the Le Mans 24 hours and would therefore never contemplate allowing F1 to use the La Sarthe circuit.

go_Rubens wrote:
Hound55 wrote:For me it would have to be Watkins Glen. Cool track with plenty of elevation changes. Loads of history too. Plus it's relatively close to my house. Not as close as Indy, but I never liked Indy anyway.

Too bad Bernie only wants Tilke tracks to bring F1 to a country. Tilke has too many tracks that are basically identical. I would love to see the Glen back. It has asphalt runoff like most of today's tracks. It has some good safety features that bring the Glen up to code. Why not? By the way, if F1 returns to the Glen, I live in a neighboring state, fairly close, so the race would be a no-brainer for me. Should F1 return to the Glen? I am all for it. COTA is good, but the Glen is better.

The best way to solve Bernie's issue with finding the perfect replacement for the Glen? Just go back!

Safety has improved at Watkins Glen, that is true, but I don't think that it would be able to get a Grade 1 licence from the FIA to permit an F1 race to take place there. Equally, would the circuit owners be able to afford and F1 race? They bankrupted themselves back in 1981 because they racked up such a massive debt from the last F1 race in 1980 (they were said to owe the F1 teams about $800,000 in prize money at the time), and is it not the case that the official capacity of the circuit is relatively low, such that it would be quite difficult to make the event in any way profitable for the track owners?

johnnyCarwash · Post by **johnnyCarwash** » 27 Mar 2013, 23:09

Barbazza wrote:Pescara!

PS Not really. Though a triangle shaped track would be nice.

Pescara is considered the hardest F1 track ever to have been raced on and racing there will be more manic than the Nordschelife!

Having said that it would be nice to have a race on public roads like going back to the origins of F1. I don't have many ideas for which roads though which hasn't already been suggested (a Manx GP would be epic). Maybe the original Spa circuit...

I'd like to see a couple of good street circuits come back, Adelaide as Australian GP and Montjuic Circuit as the Spanish GP

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Mar 2013, 23:36

As johnnyCarwash said, I would like some good street circuits on the calendar. Also, more races on rural public roads like the old Spa and Mount Panorama would be good for F1. In fact, I hope the Mount Panorama track takes over for the Aussie GP. Really cool tack.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 27 Mar 2013, 23:55

Enna-Pergusa. Remove the second and third chicane complexes. Huge DRS zones. Let the passing and re-passing begin.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:08

F1000X wrote:Enna-Pergusa. Remove the second and third chicane complexes. Huge DRS zones. Let the passing and re-passing begin.

Multiple DRS zones down the same straight!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:12

Oh, what about AVUS with two DRS zones, one down the length of each straight???

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:19

F1000X wrote:Enna-Pergusa. Remove the second and third chicane complexes. Huge DRS zones. Let the passing and re-passing begin.

This race may be a good slipstreaming race and good for DRS, but a Sicilian track surrounding a lake and a former site of the non-championship Mediterranean GP just doesn't seem like a good idea to me, or for modern F1.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:21

dr-baker wrote:Oh, what about AVUS with two DRS zones, one down the length of each straight???

No, because AVUS is a reject track and should be left to rot.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:29

dr-baker wrote:Oh, what about AVUS with two DRS zones, one down the length of each straight???

When the AVUS was last used, the track had ridiculous chicanes, and the track is no longer in use now. I would love to revive the AVUS, but what are your thoughts for the DRS zone lengths be? I am only asking this if you want the AVUS with no chicanes, because the DRS zones may be too long.

But then there are also safety concerns and I don't think the North Curve is suitable to be driven by car right now, so the North curve would have to be repaved or revive the Wall of Death.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:30

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Oh, what about AVUS with two DRS zones, one down the length of each straight???

No, because AVUS is a reject track and should be left to rot.

Who said the AVUS was a reject track?!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:50

go_Rubens wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Oh, what about AVUS with two DRS zones, one down the length of each straight???

No, because AVUS is a reject track and should be left to rot.

Who said the AVUS was a reject track?!

... me. Obviously. It's a horrible track, and claimed way too many lives.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Mar 2013, 00:58

BlindCaveSalamander, the AVUS with today's safety features would not be a reject track. The AVUS is like the old Hockenheim without chicanes. The AVUS was last used in 1959 by F1 (and the only time, for that matter) and the death toll may have been high. But wouldn't the old Hock be cool without chicanes? It is the same here, lad. If the AVUS is a reject track, then the old Hockenheimring is a reject track for me, and that sucks.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2013, 01:17

AVUS has a history of horrible crashes and deaths, all the way up to it's closure in the 90s. The old Hockenheim didn't. AVUS is also boring as all hell - 2 straights, 2 hairpins. If you want that, just go all the way and go on an oval.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Mar 2013, 01:25

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:AVUS has a history of horrible crashes and deaths, all the way up to it's closure in the 90s. The old Hockenheim didn't. AVUS is also boring as all hell - 2 straights, 2 hairpins. If you want that, just go all the way and go on an oval.

There was the Jean Behra accident and Keith O'dor accident plus other horrific crashes, but please name the other fatal accidents besides those two. I haven't found them. I haven't been convinced by you yet.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 28 Mar 2013, 01:30

go_Rubens wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:AVUS has a history of horrible crashes and deaths, all the way up to it's closure in the 90s. The old Hockenheim didn't. AVUS is also boring as all hell - 2 straights, 2 hairpins. If you want that, just go all the way and go on an oval.

There was the Jean Behra accident and Keith O'dor accident plus other horrific crashes, but please name the other fatal accidents besides those two. I haven't found them. I haven't been convinced by you yet.

Here. And here. Less than I thought, but there's still my other point that you haven't addressed, and that's the fact that the track would be boring as hell for F1. Or anything, really.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 28 Mar 2013, 01:36

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:AVUS has a history of horrible crashes and deaths, all the way up to it's closure in the 90s. The old Hockenheim didn't. AVUS is also boring as all hell - 2 straights, 2 hairpins. If you want that, just go all the way and go on an oval.

There was the Jean Behra accident and Keith O'dor accident plus other horrific crashes, but please name the other fatal accidents besides those two. I haven't found them. I haven't been convinced by you yet.

Here. And here. Less than I thought, but there's still my other point that you haven't addressed, and that's the fact that the track would be boring as hell for F1. Or anything, really.

I personally see the AVUS as a great slipstreaming track with plenty of overtaking into the hairpins. The track layout may be dull, but the racing sholdn't be boring.

I don't tend to get fired up, but I am right now. I am trying to preserve the legacy of the AVUS. The AVUS is historic, and I can think of plenty of people who like the AVUS.