2013 Comment: The Case for JEV?

[eytl]

Hi everyone,

Well, finally I've been able to churn out a little bit of new content, in the form of another 2013 season comment - this time about the intriguing intra-team battle between Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Eric Vergne at Toro Rosso. We ask whether a case can be made that in fact Jean-Eric Vergne is the man best-placed to fill the void should Mark Webber leave Red Bull at the end of this year.

Check it out here: http://www.f1rejects.com/centrale/2013/vergne/index.html

I will admit, this article is partly:

(a) a genuine comment on a real topic of interest
(b) an attempt to exercise my seemingly powerful hoodoo voodoo powers for Ricciardo's benefit, and
(c) a lame attempt to present some new content before I go overseas on holidays for a week and a half.

That reminds me, for the first time in about 22 years, I will be missing a GP because I'll be in Mostar, Bosnia & Herzegovina next Sunday when the British GP is on. I'll only be able to catch up on the race after I return (just in time for German GP qualifying!). Which means there won't be any ROTR announcement until after the German GP.

Cheers,
Enoch

[FullMetalJack]

Now you've wrote this article, either Ricciardo will start churning in performance after performance, or Vergne will go back to Valencia 2012 mode.

I look forward to reading this when I get a chance to.

[Nessafox]

Now you've wrote this article, either Ricciardo will start churning in performance after performance, or Vergne will go back to Valencia 2012 mode.

I look forward to reading this when I get a chance to.

He obviously did it on purpose to support Ricciardo.

[Aerospeed]

Now you've wrote this article, either Ricciardo will start churning in performance after performance, or Vergne will go back to Valencia 2012 mode.

I look forward to reading this when I get a chance to.

He obviously did it on purpose to support Ricciardo.

No, if he did that it would backfire. Every time I try and do this "reverse psychology" stuff it always backfires on me. For example, I once said to my parents "it would be a blessing to have broccoli." Guess what I got?

[Alextrax52]

JEV is a better racer than Ricciardo and I hope if Webber goes then he will be in the Red Bull next year and Not Ricciardo. Dan would probably make RBR unstoppable over 1 lap but I fear he would drop back in the races

[good_Ralf]

JEV is a better racer than Ricciardo and I hope if Webber goes then he will be in the Red Bull next year and Not Ricciardo. Dan would probably make RBR unstoppable over 1 lap but I fear he would drop back in the races

I could see either of those drivers score their first podiums and wins in the RB10. Then again, what if Red Bull have a season like Ferrari in 2005 or McLaren in 2009? All the hype over whichever driver gets the seat would be all for nothing.

[mario]

I do have to agree that, at the moment, Webber just doesn't seem to have the fight in him that he once had, almost as if his heart is no longer in it now. Even allowing for the politics and some misfortune, Webber's pace since Malaysia hasn't been quite what it was, as if his edge has been somewhat dulled by the politics and frustration at the way the sport has evolved. It is also, to a certain extent, hurting Red Bull - they are still fairly secure in the WCC thanks to Vettel's success, but if things were a bit tighter, Webber's recent slightly sluggish form would be a concern.

In that instance, I can agree that Verge would probably come across as a solid replacement for Webber for 2014 - he'd have room to develop (being 23 and having two seasons under his belt), but has passed through that early period when he'd probably be at his most accident prone. da Costa might be promising but has faltered a little in FR3.5, so it might be safer to ease him into F1 via Toro Rosso and go for a slightly safer bet for 2014, particularly since that slightly greater experience might be advantageous in that transition period.
Ricciardo, meanwhile, would probably be a decent mentor and yardstick for da Costa - to be fair to Ricciardo, he has had the lions share of misfortune at Toro Rosso, with two exhaust failures in the opening races and being taken out by Grosjean in Monaco. He might have gone on to score points in Malaysia had he not retired - he was battling with Vergne before he started losing power - and has shown some promise at times, but I would agree that, at the moment, Vergne does seem like he is still performing just that bit better in race trim right now.

As an aside on that throwaway remark about Kimi, I would suggest that, although the likelihood of Kimi moving to Red Bull is very low, I can see Kimi wanting to move from Lotus for one possible reason - the fact that Lotus's long term financial security is questionable.
We know that Lotus has recorded heavy losses in recent years - especially last year, where it's losses exceeded £50 million - and although they have new partners in the team, I'd still be a little anxious if I was a driver at Lotus right now. The loss of Allison, on top of a number of other experienced staff having left or retired from the team, plus the loss of resources may well start dragging down the long term competitiveness of the team, so Kimi might not be entirely comfortable within the team right now.

Red Bull doesn't seem like the natural fit for Kimi, but, if push came to shove and he did decide to leave Lotus, Red Bull is the only major team right now that is likely to have a vacancy for 2014 (OK, Ferrari might have one if Massa retires too, but Kimi did not leave Ferrari on good terms, Massa hasn't indicated that he wants to leave just yet and Ferrari don't seem to be looking around for a replacement at the moment). I'm still expecting Kimi to remain at Lotus for the reasons you mentioned - his position as No. 1 driver within that team is assured - but he might stay on a one year contract and perhaps look to see which engine manufacturer has done the best post 2014.

[dr-baker]

I bet that Webber's replacement will end up not being either of the Toro Rosso drivers, not Felix da Costa, but... Seb Buemi!!! (Can you imagine if Felix da Costa came with Costa sponsorsip? Coffee and Red Bull sounds like a foul combination!)

[Jocke1]

Gary Paffett will replace MW. You heard it here first.

[Hound55]

Great article, but it's a shame that you had to curse him like that, just as his season is going fairly well. I quite like JEV.

[Phoenix]

For me, Vergne looks like being the best option right now. Buemi is used goods by now, and doesn't seem to have the turn of speed Red Bull would be looking after. Ricciardo might be more consistent, but it seems as though his potential is more limited. Plus, Jean-Éric is beginning to work over his issues, so if he can keep up the form he's showing right now he could be a solid candidate. da Costa lacks experience and should be promoted to Toro Rosso instead. Taking him straight out of FR3.5 to Red Bull is a huge risk not even Antonio himself would be willing to take. We all know Vettel is the flavor of the day at Red Bull since 2009 and one wonders whether Red Bull would be truly supportive towards him in the way McLaren was supportive of Hamilton back in 2007, and whether he would stand the pressure he would be facing.

[Onxy Wrecked]

Gary Paffett will replace MW. You heard it here first.

I fear you might be right on this one and Gary becomes the oldest rookie since Johnny Carwash (Giovanni Lavaggi).

[Ferrim]

I will admit, this article is partly:

(...)
(b) an attempt to exercise my seemingly powerful hoodoo voodoo powers for Ricciardo's benefit, and

I predict a strong summer for Mr. Vergne, then.

[Yannick]

Dr. Marko most likely will handle this issue as usual. After all, there is the Nürburgring forthcoming this season: high time to sack a Toro Rosso driver! Due to Vergne's performance this year, it won't be him but Ricciardo. Vergne and the new guy then will continue with the team for the whole of next year.

At least that's what the statistics say on Dr. Marko's history of driver management on behalf of Scuderia Toro Rosso. Also, this is the main reason why I cannot root for this team anymore.

[Benetton]

Good article. However, no chance that they put da Costa straight into the RBR seat.

[go_Rubens]

Good article. However, no chance that they put da Costa straight into the RBR seat.

I agree with this. Look at what happened to Gilles Villeneuve. He was thrown into the Ferrari immediately and didn't do that well at first. I feel da Costa would have the same fate.

Dr. Marko most likely will handle this issue as usual. After all, there is the Nürburgring forthcoming this season: high time to sack a Toro Rosso driver! Due to Vergne's performance this year, it won't be him but Ricciardo. Vergne and the new guy then will continue with the team for the whole of next year.

At least that's what the statistics say on Dr. Marko's history of driver management on behalf of Scuderia Toro Rosso. Also, this is the main reason why I cannot root for this team anymore.

Sorry, but I don't see how Marko would sack a Toro Rosso driver just yet. Both JEV and Ricciardo have shown good potential for the RBR seat next year. I think they need to race to the end of the season, and we'll see whether RBR wants JEV or Daniel if Webber is to leave. Yes, Marko's history of driver management has been pretty poor. Look at Algersuari a few years ago. He had speed and beat Buemi on the racetrack and was very consistent. The fact that he got sacked I don't agree with. It seems that RBR want another Vettel, and they can't get that.

[Julien]

The last phrase is epic

[Rusujuur]

I still believe in the Kimi angle as he has market value and is a proven star. Vettel would earn respect by beating him and I honestly believe he would, he is in a team he knows and in his best years, Kimi is getting older and a switch always takes time. For Red Bull he would still be a good pointgatherer in the championship. The only thing standing in the way of this move I think is the price tag that is associated with him. Although I can't see Lotus being able to muster that much money next year either, so...

[SgtPepper]

I still believe in the Kimi angle as he has market value and is a proven star. Vettel would earn respect by beating him and I honestly believe he would, he is in a team he knows and in his best years, Kimi is getting older and a switch always takes time. For Red Bull he would still be a good pointgatherer in the championship. The only thing standing in the way of this move I think is the price tag that is associated with him. Although I can't see Lotus being able to muster that much money next year either, so...

I can't help but feel Kimi is being slightly sold short, and has more than proved his worth over the years. It'd be interesting to see him in the RB seat as we would finally have a clear measure of Vettel's abilities (although as Hamilton is showing at Merc, pre-formed assumptions or team shifts are not always relative to results), but this appears highly unlikely due to what has already been said about PR responsibilities at RB etc etc. I also cannot ever see the wet-towel that is Christian Horner OBE ever maintaining any sort of decorum or control over the driver pairing. If he were to move there, I'd predict Vettel beating Kimi for the first half of a season, at least on qualifying, but if the RB ever proved less competitive/flawed and more fighting was required from lower in the field (which is more likely with such a large regulation change in 2014), Kimi would definitely have the edge. Kimi will most likely reassess towards the latter part of the season depending upon the degree of development Lotus manages to maintain, but I wouldn't put it beyond him jumping to RB if the opportunity became available and it was clear they would have a vastly superior 2014 car. Would Ferrari ever be likely to dispense with Massa, particularly if he had yet another poor season, and would Kimi go back?

Mark Webber's future is interesting - he appears to actually be quite happy in some interviews, but completely indifferent to results on track. Backing off simply to set fastest lap in Canada was intriguing, and some part of me wonders if he'll spend the rest of the season simply pulling little tricks as some form of revenge for his less than ideal treatment at RB over the years - I think his performance in Silverstone, a track he's generally been strong at will highlight his intentions for the season.

Although some talent has clearly passed through Toro Rosso, no one specific drive or driver immediately comes to mind with an exceptional stand out performance (akin to say Bottas' Canadian qualifying), although I may be wrong there. Taking all this into account, if hypothetically Webber was to make it increasingly clear he was leaving towards the end of 2013, and Kimi made it clear he wanted Webber's seat (and RB was to take him), doesn't this render Toro Rosso as defunct as a 'feeder' team?

[go_Rubens]

Well written case for JEV, Enoch. Great read!

[girry]

The Curse of Enoch indeed is efficient.

[good_Ralf]

In the first race after the review was placed on the website, Ricciardo made Q3 while Vergne didn't and in the race Ricciardo scored points but Vergne suffered a scary tyre failure and later retired.

[Hound55]

The Curse of Enoch indeed is efficient.

Indeed it is, almost to a scary degree.

Now he must choose whether to use this great power for evil or for good.

[FullMetalJack]

The Curse of Enoch indeed is efficient.

Indeed it is, almost to a scary degree.

Now he must choose whether to use this great power for evil or for good.

One just has to wonder what the next article will be. Using reverse psychology, my guess would either be:

A) This is Vettel's year

or

B) HWNSNBM done in F1 for good?

[go_Rubens]

In the first race after the review was placed on the website, Ricciardo made Q3 while Vergne didn't and in the race Ricciardo scored points but Vergne suffered a scary tyre failure and later retired.

We can safely say that Enoch is THE Racing God Or is that HWNSNBM?

[Onxy Wrecked]

One just has to wonder what the next article will be. Using reverse psychology, my guess would either be:

A) This is Vettel's year

or

B) HWNSNBM done in F1 for good?

I vote A. then Vettel proceeds to DNF five races in a row due to crashes and mechanical failures.

[TomWazzleshaw]

One just has to wonder what the next article will be. Using reverse psychology, my guess would either be:

A) This is Vettel's year

or

B) HWNSNBM done in F1 for good?

I vote A. then Vettel proceeds to DNF five races in a row due to crashes and mechanical failures.

And then leave Red Bull in disgust to join John Booth's mob in a straight swap with ChiltonCraze?

[Ferrim]

One just has to wonder what the next article will be. Using reverse psychology, my guess would either be:

A) This is Vettel's year

or

B) HWNSNBM done in F1 for good?

I vote A. then Vettel proceeds to DNF five races in a row due to crashes and mechanical failures.

Remember that Enoch already tried that trick last year, with "Nothing Like 1982". In that article, written after Vettel's fourth straight with at India, he pretty much conceded the title to him. But it didn't work.

Well, it actually did: Vettel went from 13 points ahead with three races to go and in a clearly faster car than the Ferrari, to nearly losing the championship. In the process, he was disqualified for fuel irregularities at Abu Dhabi, where he was also seen collecting objects in the side of the track. Something weird happened in Austin (sorry for the awful pun), as a Red Bull stopped in the track, but it was a near miss as it was Webber's; anyway, Vettel also lost that win thanks to a Hamilton charge. And in the final day of the season he nearly destroyed his car in a first lap crash with Bad Senna.

In the end, though, it wasn't enough... maybe what we need is an article called "Why Sebastian Vettel Is The Best Grand Prix Driver Ever"?

[takagi_for_the_win]

Or we could whack a completely different spin on things; I'm hoping that the next article will be "Why the tennis player Laura Robson will never fall head over heels in love with forum member takagi_for_the_win"

[mario]

Or we could whack a completely different spin on things; I'm hoping that the next article will be "Why the tennis player Laura Robson will never fall head over heels in love with forum member takagi_for_the_win"

Baker's law taken to it's inevitable conclusions...

On another note, Red Bull have announced that Ricciardo will be driving for them in the Young Driver test as one of their "experienced" drivers in the slot that was originally allocated to Webber (it seems that, with development work being prohibited for the experienced drivers, that it was not considered worthwhile putting Webber in the seat). Although that decision means that Vergne will be getting more time to test at Toro Rosso, having Ricciardo test for them has lead some to suggest that they might be lining him up for the second seat at Red Bull after all...

[EDIT] Well, it looks like the curse of an F1Rejects article works as thoroughly as ever, since Horner has now confirmed that Vergne is now no longer in the running for the second seat at Red Bull and it is between Kimi and Ricciardo for the position. http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... ll-in-2014