ROTHWP-Rejects of the Half-way point

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 30 Jul 2014, 11:49

Break up 1 was after the flyaways. Break up 2 could be after the summer break. The worst performers for me so far are

Sauber: Slow and boring. 0 points after 11 races 2 drivers who have had their fair share of crashes and behind Marussia in the championship. Bring Van der God in soon
Kimi Raikkonen: In winter sports 4th 5th and 6th get awards too. If we applied that to F1 then Hungary would be the first time all season where Raikkonen would get one. That says it all about how bad his season has been. Thrashed by Alonso in every single department this season
Lotus : While the car's been bad the fall from grace has been astonishing. Grosjean's drove his heart out this season while Maldonado's been unlucky. How must he feel to see what Williams are doing this season
Marcus Ericsson: While he's a rookie in the worst car on the grid the amount of accidents he's had this season has been appalling. It's got to the point where I expect an accident at least once a weekend from him
Toro Rosso Unreliability: It's been worse than Lotus's. You just have to look at that car and it'll break

Who are your ROTHWP's?

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 30 Jul 2014, 12:27

Gotta be Sauber for me, simply for the fact that they are behind Marussia in the Constructors' Championship.

watka · Post by **watka** » 30 Jul 2014, 12:36

Driver wise, I'd stick with what I said in the mid-season driver rankings thread as say Marcus Ericsson. He really has been out of his depth even considering the leeway you get for driving for Caterham. Makes a mockery of my tongue-in-cheek prediction in the pre season podcast!

Teams wise, no one has been more disappointing than Sauber. They are in a comparable position to how Williams were last year but you can't say that they haven't had their chances to score points and also they deserve what they have got from selecting such uninspiring drivers (and keeping van der God out of the car!).

Miscellany wise, I have to say the media for lamely trying to stir up a Hamilton-Rosberg blowout. All of the pre- and post-race coverage seems to centre around their relationship with each other and the constant fishing for soundbites has quite frankly been doing my head in. Hence, my repeated comments about how I find it acceptable that Hamilton and Rosberg will criticise each other on occasion because when you are asking about it 24/7 you are eventually going to come out with something. It's like jabbing a crocodile with a stick.

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 30 Jul 2014, 14:46

Tough one because there have been some poor performances this year

Sauber have been dire there is no doubt about it but to be honest seeing their driver line-up at the start of the year I'm not really that surprised.

Pastor Maldonado has also not surprised with some awful drives and 0 points. What a surprise!

Sebastian Vettel's Performances as well have brought into question his 4 world titles and his reaction isn't enduring himself to f1- If this his Schumacher 1996 then he is becoming an Eddie Irvine.

But here is my top 3

3rd Mclaren Mercedes
All the changes they made over the winter has led to... 2 podiums. Apart from Australia nothing has changed performance wise. Pretty Poor.

2nd Marcus Eriksen- He really hasn't made an impact on f1 and the only time I notice him is when he crashes. And he has managed to be slower than Chilton.

but the winner is

1st Kimi Raikkonen
Where do I begin with the iceman. Slow, accident prone and slightly uninteresting one must wonder why he is still in f1. Its become clear that Ferrari have to look foward than backwards next year.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 30 Jul 2014, 17:51

Thanks for starting this thread, Freeze-O-Kimi. I was meaning to, but placement... (->).

Sauber are a very good nomination at this stage, and Caterham are in with a shout due to staff redundancies, sale and the fact that Marussia scored points on merit and they haven't looked like doing so.

Williams initially during the flyaways looked like nominations and continued to do so until Bottas's recent run of podiums. Let's hope that short run of podiums returns.

Post by **mario** » 30 Jul 2014, 18:02

In terms of the teams, McLaren have to stand out as a fairly conspicuous candidate.

Given that the team claimed it has its biggest budget ever and is being supplied with the best engine in the field, to be in 6th place shows that they've not really made any progress from 2013. The team has reportedly been hiring fairly aggressively for 2015, but I have a feeling that Ron is in some ways going for a brute force approach by throwing resources at the issue (perhaps summed by by Ron's talk where he made it clear that he had no sympathy for the smaller teams and was determined to spend as heavily as he could get away with). If so, then I feel that McLaren will fail once again - the problems are as much organisational as an issue with resources.

That said, resources clearly are an issue at Sauber, and to be honest the car is a bit of a mess this year - whilst Ferrari's overweight engine hasn't helped, the team has bled experienced staff and are perhaps struggling to develop the car as a result. That isn't to lay all of the blame at their feet though - their drivers are, you sense, underperforming too, with Sutil not really offering any leadership to the team and Gutierrez does not seem to be developing as a driver either.
OK, Gutierrez did demonstrate a flash of promise when he was running in the points in Hungary - incidentally, it is not a good sign for Sutil that, despite starting ahead of him, it was Gutierrez who was making more of the opportunity for points in Hungary - but otherwise that was a brief highlight in an otherwise uninspiring season.

Looking elsewhere, so far this season Kimi's form has looked like a shadow of what it was in 2013 - he simply cannot get on top of the car in the way that Alonso has, and although some of his problems are not of his own making, overall there is an impression that Kimi is struggling with answers to his form. He has already indicated that he is considering retiring in 2015, but he might not even make it that far if Bianchi continues to impress. That said, he did look like he was getting back some of the form we have seen in the past at the Hungarian GP; if he can capitalise on that for the rest of the season, then perhaps there may be some redemption for him yet.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 30 Jul 2014, 21:26

I'm just going to nominate those who are trying to stir up the so called feud between the 2 Mercedes drivers which so far is just a slight wind in a beer glass......

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 31 Jul 2014, 00:53

For me, I'm giving it a shared reward between the FIA and the media, for all being complete idiots.

I won't make an official decision on the FIA yet until we see how the double points race turns out but they've made some silly decisions this year and have been inconsistent as normal, especially with track limits (you'd think they'd have figured it out by now).

The media have been complete idiots by blowing up the Hamilton/Rosberg duel. Does it really mean what the journalists trying to make a buck make it sound like? Hell no. Isn't there an F1 Rejects article about the media blowing up Lewis/Nico?

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 31 Jul 2014, 07:54

1. Maldonado - awful, awful season. If he isn't having mechanical breakdowns he's losing the car and crashing into people.

2. Ericsson - hasn't looked even nearly good enough, and making Chilton look alright in comparison

3. Massa - has the second best car, look what he's done with it.

watka · Post by **watka** » 31 Jul 2014, 12:13

go_Rubens wrote:
The media have been complete idiots by blowing up the Hamilton/Rosberg duel. Does it really mean what the journalists trying to make a buck make it sound like? Hell no. Isn't there an F1 Rejects article about the media blowing up Lewis/Nico?

Yep, it's here.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 31 Jul 2014, 20:23

Ericcson has to be a credible nomination. I don't think I've seen anyone this out of their depth since... Yuji Ide?

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 31 Jul 2014, 21:02

Definites for me:

Lotus - There may be three cars slower than on it on the grid, but the Lotus definitely seems the most wayward. Their drivers fight with it every session and it's broken down a few times too. The 8 points they have on the board courtesy of Grosjean will probably see them finish ahead of Marussia, Sauber and Caterham, but I don't see where many more points are going to come from. Long drop from a team that recorded one win and several podiums.

Kimi Raikkonen - I'll concede Ferrari haven't produced a car that a driver of Kimi's ability deserves this season, and it's not a great place to be for an established driver hoping for a competitive car to see out his career. But if Alonso, who's more or less at the same stage of his career as Kimi, and has dealt with four years of Ferrari not producing a car that matches his talent, can motivate himself to perform, then so should Kimi. But he's further away from his team-mate on the points board than anyone else is. The fact that it's not in his nature to give a fiddlers is moot to me, he should pull his finger out.

Sauber - Are probably going to finish behind Marussia, and but for the fact that Caterham are having a very bad season, would finish last in the WDC.

Maybe:

Caterham - They've produced the slowest car on the grid, have laid off half their staff, from whom they are now facing lawsuits. But I consider them a maybe rather than a definite candidate for mid season reject because they have basically been wound down to virtually nothing since the middle of last season and it's hard to expect them to be anywhere significantly above last. That being said, I can't nominate Lotus and Sauber as mid-season reject without at least mentioning Caterham who are propping them off the bottom of the table. They're not new to F1 anymore, they've been here since 2010 and haven't recorded a finish higher than 11th.

Massa - See my comment above about Raikkonen being further off his team mate than any other driver is? Guess who's second in that little table? Massa. He trails Bottas by 55 points. The reason I consider him a maybe though is that he has failed to finish races a couple of times that weren't really his fault and lost out on big points because of that. But on the other hand, even with a perfect finishing record he'd still be behind Bottas, and he talks too much for his own good.

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 02 Aug 2014, 20:16

Sauber: Is this really the same team where, two short years ago, they had arguably the strongest driver line up (Perez and Kobayashi), one of the top three cars on a good day and three podiums? They look like a reject team. I have an enormous amount of respect and admiration for Monisha Kalternborn, but their decline is also linked to Peter Sauber handing over the reins to her.

McLaren: Speaking of Perez, on his social media he put a brave face on being dumped by McLaren but was clearly gutted. I bet he can't believe his luck at getting out of there now. I sincerely hope this is not another Williams story in the making.

Kimi: Has just been shocking this year. As others have said, Alonso stands out by staying motivated even when the car isn't quite up to scratch. Kimi just gives up.I find it amusing that he is saying he will retire after 2015 because I'll be surprised if he makes it that far.

Vettel: When it became clear that RBR were not going to dominate this year, I said at the time that this year could be the making of Sebastian's reputation, like Schumacher's 1996. If he conducted himself with dignity and outdrove the machinery, his stock would increase tremendously. But he hasn't, and being so humbled by Ricciardo is even more damaging.

Massa: It's terrible to see this once, if not great but very able and resourceful, driver being so rejectful both on and off the track. Just retire now.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 02 Aug 2014, 21:00

Sauber actually had 4 podiums in 2012 (3 for Perez - Malaysia, Canada and Italy, 1 for Kobayashi - Japan).

And I REALLY don't think Massa deserves to be in there - his season is very much reminding me of Sebastian Bourdais in 2008 - Vettel got all the slices of luck, he got none. And Massa did beat Bottas in the last race as well. I think how Raikkonen is performing against Alonso now makes Massa seem not as bad - it's just Alonso is a step above both of them.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Aug 2014, 21:07

Marcus Ericsson: The instant I heard him being linked to Caterham, I knew it was going to be a mistake for both parties. He is completely out of his depth.
Kimi Raikkonen: Before Hungary, he had scored a measly 2 points in the last 5 races. Alonso had scored 48 points in the same five races. Unacceptable.
Felipe Massa: This season was his big chance to prove that he still had what it took to be a top line driver. If anything, he is only proving that Ferrari never should have bothered bringing him back in the first place. Utterly embarrassing.
Sauber: The car is objectively worse than the Lotus in every way, and Sutil and Gutierrez are bringing nothing but repair bills and wasted opportunities. This is not the year they needed right now.

As for those nominating Sebastian Vettel, I'll have to respectfully disagree - while certainly Vettel's form is disappointing as he is struggling to get to grips with the new regulations, to call him a ROTY contender at this stage of the season is a little much. It's not like he's been driving terribly - if the roles were reversed, and Ricciardo was the one in Vettel's shoes, I'm sure we would all still be praising his ability. I think the thing to take away from the Red Bull drivers is that pretty much everyone grossly underestimated Ricciardo's ability prior to this year - right now, I'd say he's displaced Hamilton in my personal top-3 drivers.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 02 Aug 2014, 22:21

3 - Lotus: Yes, we all know the problems of the team, since the end of the last year, but this isn't a excuse to escape of ROTY podium. A team who had a win and tons of podiums last year, only scored 8 points in this season so far. The main problem is the car, the drivers are good enough.

2 - Sauber: Worse than 1999-2000, the worst years of the team. The car is bad, the drivers are bad, all bad. No wonder Marussia managed to score points and Sauber not and no wonder if Marussia finishes ahead of the team.

1 - Adrian Sutil: He is the driver who supposed to be the leader of team, like Hulkenberg did. What he did so far? Embarrassing himself and the team, starting in Bahrain, when he throws his car against Grosjean in the qualify and collided with Bianchi two times in the race. Gutierrez had the best opportunities to score points so far, in Monaco and now in Hungaroring. Yes, the same driver who was utterly beaten by Hulkenberg. Sutil are doing so bad that he deserves an exclusive spot in the ROTY podium, even with his team deserving to be here too.

Zergon · Post by **Zergon** » 03 Aug 2014, 10:45

To me, I have to say Kimi Räikkönen is the biggest disappointment considering what I expected from each driver.

Marcus Ericsson is certainly a cantidate too but to be honest, I didn´t expect him to really do any better than what he had. Adrian Sutil is another disappointing guy as I expected him to at least easily beat Gutierrez who I think was the worst driver last year. Instead they have been pretty even and Sutil has thrown away just as many chances to get good results than Gutierrez.

On teams... well that´s a closer battle as I think that Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Sauber (and maybe Caterham too) could compete here but I go with Sauber. Ferrari can at least still compete on top 5 spots (ok, so half of the team can), McLaren is about the same than last year while Lotus have had occasional flashes of hope (mainly China and Spain) and have been getting better from were they started (not that it´s hard to get better results than what they had in Australia). Sauber however, were one of the better cars at the end of last year (or at least looked like that thanks to Hulkenberg) and now they can´t even fight Lotus on 8th spot and are actually behind of Marussia too despite clearly being bit quicker than them. They haven´t really have that many races/qualifying were they could have get into top 10 and the ones they had, drivers have usually found a way to crash like in Monaco or qualifying in Britain. I just can´t really think anything positive they have done this year or anything that would even slighly suggest that they might get into points this year and beat Marussia which I think is about the maximum they could do this year.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 04 Aug 2014, 00:24

Although Sauber, Mclaren, Lotus, Ericsson and some of Massa's behaviour are strong contenders, my personal nominations go to The Media and Kimi.

The whipping up of the faux 'Prost/Senna' feud is pathetic, artificial, incredibly transparent and wholly unnecessary when the racing itself has been stellar this year. Kimi's more of a dissapointment - whether it's due to the car handling poorly or simply not caring, a driver of his calibre should be putting in a stronger showing than he has so far this season. I was one of those who thought he would be practically matching Alonso, perhaps slightly slower in race trim but outqualifying him relatively frequently - but the performance gap has been huge. Of course, being Alonso's teammate is never an ideal situation for preserving one's reputation, but there just seems to be something lacking from his recent drives that I really hope he gets back.

I'm actually going to have to agree with Salamander on defending Vettel (never thought I'd be saying that!), though for different reasons. Perhaps because I've never seen him as anything above 'ok' as a driver, I'm much less shocked than most by his being resolutely trounced by Ricciardo. But he does deserve credit for seeming to have handled it very maturely up until now - whether it's a facade or not is quite difficult to ascertain, but it's certainly more intelligently than the likes of Hamilton and Massa have been behaving recently.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 04 Aug 2014, 06:30

Sauber - A once great team that now seems to have lost its way completely.

The Media - As mentioned above for the same reasons. I found it very frustrating that two drivers who had/have been great mates for years were suddenly compared to rivals who had battled each other for races and championships over many seasons and had a complicated and often difficult relationship because of it. Equally annoying was the fact that one of the drivers appeared to buy into this construct readily. We all know which one.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 06 Aug 2014, 01:39

James1978 wrote:Sauber actually had 4 podiums in 2012 (3 for Perez - Malaysia, Canada and Italy, 1 for Kobayashi - Japan).

And I REALLY don't think Massa deserves to be in there - his season is very much reminding me of Sebastian Bourdais in 2008 - Vettel got all the slices of luck, he got none. And Massa did beat Bottas in the last race as well. I think how Raikkonen is performing against Alonso now makes Massa seem not as bad - it's just Alonso is a step above both of them.

Helped by the safety car, while his teammate was hindered.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 07 Aug 2014, 15:23

It has to be Sauber. I mean as great as it is for us, did anyone, anyone, even on this board, ever imagine Marussia would be beating them? Or better still, that it looks almost certain to stay that way?

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 07 Aug 2014, 18:48

The contents of this post were removed by the author.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 08 Aug 2014, 06:44

Wallio wrote:It has to be Sauber. I mean as great as it is for us, did anyone, anyone, even on this board, ever imagine Marussia would be beating them? Or better still, that it looks almost certain to stay that way?

I like supporting the Rejects but my support comes from not wanting them to be Rejectful forever so for me at least Sauber blowing every race weekend isn't all that great, especially after seeing them progress nicely over the last two decades.

watka · Post by **watka** » 08 Aug 2014, 12:29

If avatar challenges are still a thing I'm willing to make a bet that Sauber will still finish above Marussia in the constructors championship this year.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 08 Aug 2014, 13:14

watka wrote:If avatar challenges are still a thing I'm willing to make a bet that Sauber will still finish above Marussia in the constructors championship this year.

If I can find an appropriate avatar, then challenge accepted!

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 08 Aug 2014, 16:36

CoopsII wrote:
Wallio wrote:It has to be Sauber. I mean as great as it is for us, did anyone, anyone, even on this board, ever imagine Marussia would be beating them? Or better still, that it looks almost certain to stay that way?

I like supporting the Rejects but my support comes from not wanting them to be Rejectful forever so for me at least Sauber blowing every race weekend isn't all that great, especially after seeing them progress nicely over the last two decades.

Well Sauber isn't a reject. They haven't been for what? 20 years? I was referring to Marussia with the "great for us" line.

watka wrote:If avatar challenges are still a thing I'm willing to make a bet that Sauber will still finish above Marussia in the constructors championship this year.

I'd be game too. Its just not happening.

Dom_Wings · Post by **Dom_Wings** » 11 Aug 2014, 21:22

I am a big fan of Kimi, but unfortunately he was very disappointing, maybe the car does not suit him at all? I hope his fortunes turn like in 2004 (1st half of the season total fail, then McLaren got a new car and that was the boost Kimi needed).

I feel that the back surgery he had at the end of last season did not help him at all... more like it hurt him a lot speed-wise.

Still better than what would have been at Lotus this season.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 12 Aug 2014, 23:01

Should you lose this bet watka, this will be your avatar

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 13 Aug 2014, 12:20

FullMetalJack wrote:Should you lose this bet watka, this will be your avatar

watka · Post by **watka** » 13 Aug 2014, 12:48

I've just spent 10 minutes in the work bathroom trying to pull that face, I'm not sure how its actually possible. :lol:

I'll find something for you later.

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 13 Aug 2014, 12:50

You know a face is fantastic when you're unable to even replicate it! :lol:

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 13 Aug 2014, 19:13

Try this creepy Ralf-themed picture.

watka · Post by **watka** » 14 Aug 2014, 12:32

In a similar vein, here's the avatar I propose for you guys should I win the bet.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 14 Aug 2014, 12:52

watka wrote:In a similar vein, here's the avatar I propose for you guys should I win the bet.

Very well then. Enjoy your Ralf avatar come the end of the season.

Pacifics only fan · Post by **Pacifics only fan** » 14 Aug 2014, 17:14

Perhaps I should just change my username to "Long suffering Sauber fan", been a miserable start to the season (again).

Yes, they don't exactly have the most exciting driver lineup, but seriously, no points after half a year, and being beaten by Marussia? Come on. They are easily my ROTHWP "winners".

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 15 Aug 2014, 10:39

Pacifics only fan wrote:Perhaps I should just change my username to "Long suffering Sauber fan", been a miserable start to the season (again).

Yes, they don't exactly have the most exciting driver lineup, but seriously, no points after half a year, and being beaten by Marussia? Come on. They are easily my ROTHWP "winners".

That's what I had to deal with in 2011 and 2013 as a Williams fan, except to a very slightly lesser extent.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 24 Nov 2014, 19:42

BUMP

As Sauber failed to finish above Marussia in the Constructors Championship, it's time for your new avatar watka.

watka · Post by **watka** » 24 Nov 2014, 23:58

FullMetalJack wrote:BUMP

As Sauber failed to finish above Marussia in the Constructors Championship, it's time for your new avatar watka.

Well debatably Marussia didn't finish the Constructors Championship...

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 25 Nov 2014, 01:53

watka wrote:
FullMetalJack wrote:BUMP

As Sauber failed to finish above Marussia in the Constructors Championship, it's time for your new avatar watka.

Well debatably Marussia didn't finish the Constructors Championship...

And Sauber still didn't beat them. F1 doesn't have an American-style points system, one race in 9th>any number of races in 11th.

watka · Post by **watka** » 27 Nov 2014, 00:16

So be it (had to crop it unfortunately)!