Japanese Grand Prix Discussion Thread

[Londoner]

We start with the news that Typhoon Hagibis is currently making a beeline toward Suzuka. Qualifying could be completely rained out on Saturday.

[yannicksamlad]

Yes... this typhoon is looking worrying. Sunday may have to feature 'qualifying' of some sort if its cleared up. This means Sky F1 will simultaneously say there's nothing wrong with current quallie and then suggest that this new way of doing things is very exciting and would shorten a weekend ( so they could spend less time away from home [ never occurs they might rotate personnel])

[mario]

Yes... this typhoon is looking worrying. Sunday may have to feature 'qualifying' of some sort if its cleared up. This means Sky F1 will simultaneously say there's nothing wrong with current quallie and then suggest that this new way of doing things is very exciting and would shorten a weekend ( so they could spend less time away from home [ never occurs they might rotate personnel])

Well, shortening the race weekend is an idea that Liberty Media have been pushing (mainly in an effort to fit more races into the calendar)...

On another note, it it being reported that the Formula 4 support races which were scheduled for Saturday and Sunday have been cancelled to free up additional time for qualifying and the main race. https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/10/f1- ... n-hagibis/

[Paul Hayes]

What a shame about that tangle between Leclerc and Verstappen, and Vettel's dodgy start - without those, it could have been a classic race.

[Klon]

What a shame about that tangle between Leclerc and Verstappen, and Vettel's dodgy start - without those, it could have been a classic race.

I personally don't see it. Ferrari just weren't as good as Mercedes in race trim and their qualifying success was the product of a great party mode and superior driving by Vettel. Bottas winning the start merely accelerated the inevitable. Out front, this race was as fun as possibly could've been.

[mario]

Taking a look at a few of the clips out there, I'm surprised nobody has commented about the big chunk of Leclerc's front wing that fell off and hit Hamilton's car as he was following him, ripping the wing mirror off Hamilton's car in the process. From the looks of things, it's surprising that the stewards did not give him the black and orange flag for that - it looks like it was a pretty large chunk of wing that was hanging off.

[IceG]

Interesting comment from Karun Chandock that holding qualifying on the morning of the race means there is less time to come up with strategies so the teams go for damage limitation and mixed approaches giving a more complex race. Correlation =/ causation but it seemed to be the case here. And certainly better than short qualy races or reverse grids.

[dr-baker]

Taking a look at a few of the clips out there, I'm surprised nobody has commented about the big chunk of Leclerc's front wing that fell off and hit Hamilton's car as he was following him, ripping the wing mirror off Hamilton's car in the process. From the looks of things, it's surprising that the stewards did not give him the black and orange flag for that - it looks like it was a pretty large chunk of wing that was hanging off.

It appears that Leclerc has received a post-race time penalty for hitting Max and then not putting at the end of lap 1 for damage, which drops him a place in the race classification.

[Fetzie]

Taking a look at a few of the clips out there, I'm surprised nobody has commented about the big chunk of Leclerc's front wing that fell off and hit Hamilton's car as he was following him, ripping the wing mirror off Hamilton's car in the process. From the looks of things, it's surprising that the stewards did not give him the black and orange flag for that - it looks like it was a pretty large chunk of wing that was hanging off.

It appears that Leclerc has received a post-race time penalty for hitting Max and then not putting at the end of lap 1 for damage, which drops him a place in the race classification.

5 seconds for the collision with Verstappen and 10 seconds for not pitting for a new front wing.

[Barbazza]

I just don't get this penalty. The collision was accidental as he lost downforce under braking, and if the front wing was dangerous, why didn't they throw the black and orange flag? Yet more nonsense from F1. How many times in Touring Cars do you see a driver whose pace isn't massively affected by some damage try to get the bit to fall off before they get the flag?!

And btw, if that lap 1 collision deserved a penalty, how on earth did Albon get away with it?

The holier than thou crap being spouted by Sky F1 when Leclerc was carrying damage was hard to take, but of course it was Ferrari vs Red Bull and we can't have their best buddy Horner being upset.....

[IceG]

Surprised that the story about Renault possibly using illegal software and being challenged on it by Racing Point has not stimulated any discussion: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... n/4557343/

The Renault performance advantage from practice/qualy to race was noticeable but the article does not suggest that as evidential.

When Honda were found to have deployed an extra fuel-tank and clever scavenging system they were disqualified from all the results of that season to date. And McLaren were disqualified for the whole season over the shenanigans with Ferrari.

Renault have (i) just lost their only customer (McLaren), (ii) have a new CEO who may/may not approve of the F1 project, (iii) have "history" when it comes to infringing rules, and now this...

[yannicksamlad]

I just don't get this penalty. The collision was accidental as he lost downforce under braking, ....

And btw, if that lap 1 collision deserved a penalty, how on earth did Albon get away with it?

T..

I too thought the penalty was a bit harsh, taking into account the 'let them race' approach. No one aims to hit the other car of course , but I suppose the test is whether it was avoidable and I suppose it was avoidable if Charles had foreseen the understeer, and perhaps he should have. It also seems clear from what Mr Masi has said in the past that the penalty is for the consequences as well as the crime , and Max's race was ruined

The Albon contact seemed much more of a 'crime'; it seemed entirely forseeable that Lando was going to turn in and use that piece of road and also that choosing the speed and trajectory, Alexander was going to use it at the same time..
Oh well

And as for the Racing Point protest ; very interesting . And yes; if it is illegal; how many GP exclusions will be made?
With only 10 teams on the grid, and Renault provide a lot of driver support, support lower categories with equipment etc plus still do engines for McLaren etc..there may be a lot of pressure to 'be nice'.

[mario]

I just don't get this penalty. The collision was accidental as he lost downforce under braking, and if the front wing was dangerous, why didn't they throw the black and orange flag? Yet more nonsense from F1. How many times in Touring Cars do you see a driver whose pace isn't massively affected by some damage try to get the bit to fall off before they get the flag?!

And btw, if that lap 1 collision deserved a penalty, how on earth did Albon get away with it?

The holier than thou crap being spouted by Sky F1 when Leclerc was carrying damage was hard to take, but of course it was Ferrari vs Red Bull and we can't have their best buddy Horner being upset.....

The answer as to why Leclerc didn't get the black and orange flag is because Ferrari told Masi they were going to instruct Leclerc to pit at the end of lap 1, so Masi did not think further action was necessary.

The problem is, Leclerc decided to then ignore the instruction to pit and kept going until that chunk of his front wing broke off. After that, Masi basically ordered Ferrari to pull Leclerc into the pits to have his front wing changed - so, whilst he didn't get a formal black and orange flag, the instructions from race control were the equivalent of a black and orange flag.

It's worth noting that, at one point, Leclerc was also driving with just one hand through some of the faster parts of the circuit, using his other hand to hold one of his wing mirrors on - again, I imagine that Masi might have taken a rather dim view of a driver driving around with only partial control of the car because he is using his other hand to stop debris flying off.

Surprised that the story about Renault possibly using illegal software and being challenged on it by Racing Point has not stimulated any discussion: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raci ... n/4557343/

The Renault performance advantage from practice/qualy to race was noticeable but the article does not suggest that as evidential.

When Honda were found to have deployed an extra fuel-tank and clever scavenging system they were disqualified from all the results of that season to date. And McLaren were disqualified for the whole season over the shenanigans with Ferrari.

Renault have (i) just lost their only customer (McLaren), (ii) have a new CEO who may/may not approve of the F1 project, (iii) have "history" when it comes to infringing rules, and now this...

I'd agree - I thought that we would have seen more comments on this topic, as it sounds like a rather interesting situation.

Renault have been forced to hand over the ECU and the steering wheels from both cars, and it appears that Racing Point have filed a 12 page dossier on Renault's braking system to support their protest. It is also interesting to note that, rather than denying the use of such a system, Renault appear to be talking about defending the use of that possible system - which does seem to suggest there is something going on here, and it'll be interesting to see how they try and counteract the questions being raised.

Now, at a circuit like Suzuka, I could imagine that there would be a useful advantage to the drivers if there was an automatic system for adjusting the brake bias, particularly through the first sector when the rapid succession of high speed corners would make a manual adjustment tricker to do on the fly.

It sounds like it is a relatively "dumb" system, in that it doesn't automatically adjust to track conditions, but uses a pre-set programme that adjusts the bias to a position predetermined by the distance around the circuit. To some extent, it reminds me of the traction aid that ibsey mentions that some teams were using in 1994, as it takes a similar approach (i.e. working on a closed loop cycle that uses distance round the track to trigger changes).