2013 Bahrain GP ROTR thread

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 20 Apr 2013, 20:06

Gutierrez is in the way of a second ROTR in-a-row. I think only a start crasher can beat him.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 20 Apr 2013, 21:07

People need to stop beating up on Gutierrez , the lad is doing his best. Support his efforts no matter how lame they may appear.

Zetec · Post by **Zetec** » 20 Apr 2013, 23:29

CoopsII wrote:People need to stop beating up on Gutierrez , the lad is doing his best. Support his efforts no matter how lame they may appear.

Yes. My ROTR has to be Monisha Kaltenborn, for claiming for the 100th time in swiss-media that money was not the reason for choosing Gutierrez over Kobayashi.
So why, Monisha Kaltenborn, was Kobayashi forced to look for sponsorship money last year to keep his seat?

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 20 Apr 2013, 23:38

I'm hoping Sauber takes out ROTY. At this point, I wouldn't shed a tear if they fold. Yes I'm that vindictive.

Hound55 · Post by **Hound55** » 21 Apr 2013, 02:50

CoopsII wrote:People need to stop beating up on Gutierrez , the lad is doing his best. Support his efforts no matter how lame they may appear.

Yeah really. He's taking a lot of flak considering that it is his rookie season and he hasn't had much time to develop. Most drivers take half a season to really shine.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 21 Apr 2013, 06:20

LionZoo wrote:I'm hoping Sauber takes out ROTY. At this point, I wouldn't shed a tear if they fold. Yes I'm that vindictive.

I would because my cousin works for them

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 21 Apr 2013, 06:46

FMecha wrote:Can we unlock and apply this, now?

Haven't read that topic until now, but seems like I'm doing all fine with opening the IIDOTR threads after the winner has crossed the line...

Post by **mario** » 21 Apr 2013, 08:09

Zetec wrote:
CoopsII wrote:People need to stop beating up on Gutierrez , the lad is doing his best. Support his efforts no matter how lame they may appear.

Yes. My ROTR has to be Monisha Kaltenborn, for claiming for the 100th time in swiss-media that money was not the reason for choosing Gutierrez over Kobayashi.
So why, Monisha Kaltenborn, was Kobayashi forced to look for sponsorship money last year to keep his seat?

There was the also slightly nasty twist that the press release Sauber put out indicated that they had been planning on firing him even earlier in the season than they actually did, which might well have compromised his attempts to remain within F1 as a result.
Since he is perceived as having pushed Kobayashi out of his seat thanks to backing from Telmex, not only does he have to contend with those that dislike the notion of pay drivers - and there does seem to be an increasing backlash against them at the moment - but he also has to deal with the fact that he is seen as displacing a very popular and characterful driver when Gutierrez's character, by contrast, is more muted.

Overall, therefore, I'm not surprised that the criticism of him is relatively strong at this stage, particularly since, so far, his single lap pace has been relatively weak (on average, he has qualified about five places behind Hulkenberg so far) and, no doubt due to inexperience, he has been involved in a few silly accidents (with Perez in China and with Pic during the practise sessions in Bahrain). For those who might have already felt aggrieved towards him, I can see why they'd be quick with criticism of Gutierrez.

LionZoo wrote:I'm hoping Sauber takes out ROTY. At this point, I wouldn't shed a tear if they fold. Yes I'm that vindictive.

I'd be disappointed to see Sauber go - considering their resources, they've come up with some interesting designs (when you've got Adrian Newey admiring your car and even going as far as copying features off it, that, if nothing else, commands some respect) and acted as a useful stepping stone for those trying to bridge the gap between the top teams and the midfield.
Also, if we were to talk about teams that might be in the running for ROTY, whilst Sauber have slipped back compared to 2012, there are other outfits that seem to have fallen back further - Williams are having another tough year so far and seem to have slipped back to the sort of form they showed in 2011, whilst the start to this year has been painful for McLaren considering their normal high standards. When Button is celebrating merely getting into the top 10 and is having to resort to unusual qualifying strategies in order to maximise his chances of points, you know things are not at all good at McLaren.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 21 Apr 2013, 08:23

I don't understand why so many people wish Sauber bad luck. Because Kobayashi was replaced by Gutierrez? Then you've to blame the economic situation in Formula One. Sauber, despite being upper midfield runners for the past two years, are desperately in need for sponsors, and Telmex wants them to run one of the Mexican drivers they support. And for a midfield team it's difficult to get major sponsors if you don't run their drivers (Williams/PDVSA, Caterham/McGregor for example). Also, I don't think that Gutierrez is really that bad. With Nico Hülkenberg, he has someone as a teammate who won everything in the junior categories and is currently maybe the best driver in the midfield teams. Remember, Gutierrez won GP3 in 2010 and was third in GP2 last year. And he didn't have much testing. I think, since the testing ban was introduced, most rookies struggled at the beginning.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 21 Apr 2013, 08:30

Gutierrez seems like the new Bruno Senna in the fact that he is getting significantly too much criticism from certain members of this forum. This alone makes me want him to have a few good races just to say bathplug you to said members of this forum.

And Sauber will always my favourite team no matter who is driving for them

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 21 Apr 2013, 09:57

pi314159 wrote:I don't understand why so many people wish Sauber bad luck. Because Kobayashi was replaced by Gutierrez? Then you've to blame the economic situation in Formula One. Sauber, despite being upper midfield runners for the past two years, are desperately in need for sponsors, and Telmex wants them to run one of the Mexican drivers they support. And for a midfield team it's difficult to get major sponsors if you don't run their drivers (Williams/PDVSA, Caterham/McGregor for example). Also, I don't think that Gutierrez is really that bad. With Nico Hülkenberg, he has someone as a teammate who won everything in the junior categories and is currently maybe the best driver in the midfield teams. Remember, Gutierrez won GP3 in 2010 and was third in GP2 last year. And he didn't have much testing. I think, since the testing ban was introduced, most rookies struggled at the beginning.

If Sauber did beat Mercedes in the WCC last season i would have been all over their cases because Mercedes are now my favourite team [Going to feel very nervous and edgy when the start comes around] They shouldn't have ditched Kobayashi because he scored all of Sauber's top qualifying positions and the only Sauber podium on PURE SPEED!!!!!. While Perez was only on the podium because of strategy and because he qualified outside the top 10. Would Perez have actually stood on the podium on pure speed? I don't think so.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Apr 2013, 10:35

Kimi-ICE wrote:If Sauber did beat Mercedes in the WCC last season i would have been all over their cases because Mercedes are now my favourite team

If Sauber beat Mercedes you should be all over Mercedes' case for being completely useless after Valencia.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 21 Apr 2013, 10:53

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:If Sauber did beat Mercedes in the WCC last season i would have been all over their cases because Mercedes are now my favourite team

If Sauber beat Mercedes you should be all over Mercedes' case for being completely useless after Valencia.

You stick loyal to your favourite team no matter what situation they are in. Besides their outings at Italy and Rosberg's 5th at Singapore [albeit down to some attrition but he did beat the lotuses fair and square] were good too

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 21 Apr 2013, 11:02

Kimi-ICE wrote:You stick loyal to your favourite team no matter what situation they are in.

Story of my life...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Apr 2013, 11:05

Kimi-ICE wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Kimi-ICE wrote:If Sauber did beat Mercedes in the WCC last season i would have been all over their cases because Mercedes are now my favourite team

If Sauber beat Mercedes you should be all over Mercedes' case for being completely useless after Valencia.

You stick loyal to your favourite team no matter what situation they are in. Besides their outings at Italy and Rosberg's 5th at Singapore [albeit down to some attrition but he did beat the lotuses fair and square] were good too

Still no reason to get on Sauber's case.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 21 Apr 2013, 11:13

Yeah i think i am being a bit unfair considering that the heroics they performed made everyone happy

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 21 Apr 2013, 11:57

Hound55 wrote:
CoopsII wrote:People need to stop beating up on Gutierrez , the lad is doing his best. Support his efforts no matter how lame they may appear.

Yeah really. He's taking a lot of flak considering that it is his rookie season and he hasn't had much time to develop. Most drivers take half a season to really shine.

We need to institute the Paul di Resta award for the driver that will always get the stick, no matter what he does.

Post by **mario** » 21 Apr 2013, 13:51

I think that we might well be seeing Pirelli being much more heavily criticised after this race - whilst Massa's first tyre failure might have been due to debris, the way that the second tyre seemed to fail (with the tyre wall parting way with the carcass of the tyre) was rather worrying.
Looking at what happened, though, I think that Alonso's DRS is worth a mention - if you consider that he has to make an extra stop to fix it and couldn't take advantage of his DRS during the race, to finish where he did on pure pace alone is pretty respectable. The points he potentially lost due to that, though, may well come to cost him later in the year.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 21 Apr 2013, 13:59

My nominations: Pirelli for the reasons mario mentioned, Gutierrez for finishing BEHIND Pic, and Alonso's rear wing.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:01

Ferrari's horrible luck.

Alonso's DRS failures and Massa having two punctures!

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:03

1. Gutierrez, beaten by a Caterham on merit
2. Button, unwise driving- held back Pérez from a higher finish, then used up his tyres and finished 10th

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:04

Although Gutierrez's race was rejectful, it doesn't compare to the very dangerous and quite ridiculous weaving maneuvers that Sergio Perez and Nico Rosberg did - there should be no reason whatsoever to make those kind of moves to maintain position.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:09

Ferrari: All things went wrong.

Special mention to:

Button: Whined too much. Perez was faster and was right in try to overtake.
Van Der garde: Crashed with Vergne and was the sole driver with +2 laps.
Gutierrez: Crashed again and finished behind of a Caterham. We still missing Kobayashi.
Ricciardo: Anonymous.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:10

Sergio Perez - kept pushing drivers off the track, fortunately he didn't cause a major accident
Giedo van der Garde - Rammed Vergne out of the race, was completely destroyed by Pic all weekend long
Nico Rosberg - dropped like a brick
Ferrari - Both drivers were nowhere after DRS / tyre failures
Gutierrez - Beaten by a Caterham

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:13

1. Alonso's DRS: Decided to do a Schumacher Canada 2012 impression

2. Massa's suspension: Caused not one but TWO punctures

3. Mercedes tire wear: Rosberg got screwed over when he could have fought for 3rd

Honorable mentions to:
Mark Webber: Whatever happened to his car mid-race he was a long way from Vettel anyway and some of his moves were a bit unpleasent

Esteban Gutierrez: Just Go Home you don't belong here

Marussia: Finished a long way behind Pic. Even Wunderkid Bianchi was powerless

Hound55 · Post by **Hound55** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:18

I'm giving it to Ferrari for finding as many problems as they could think of. Not their fault, but still. Both did terribly.

Honorable mention to Gutierrez for finishing behind Pic (even though he lost a wing).

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:23

Esteban Gutierrez. He got in the headlines after China for making a silly rookie error, so what does he do to address that? Get beaten by Charles Pic's Caterham on merit. You have to say, it's not looking good for him.

SeedStriker · Post by **SeedStriker** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:30

1.-Nikco Rosberg: After a challenging defense on the first laps, he vanished faster than PDVSA money for develop this year's Williams
2.-Jenson Button. For his best personification of Fernando Alonso (aka: The Diva) about team orders. Stop whining and drive, man!

Dishonorable mentions to Ferrari's Hellish Day (Nando's DRS, Felipinho's suspension) and Esteban Gutiérrez (beaten to the last Pic).

The Something has to Happen to at least One Force India Award goes to Adrian Sutil, since he left the battle at the front early.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:52

Giedo van der Garde.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 21 Apr 2013, 14:53

I have one nomination for Fernando's DRS, but in some previous races, it has been known that the ROTR has gone to the race's sole retirement, so Jules-Eric Vergne has to get a mention here too.

johnnyCarwash · Post by **johnnyCarwash** » 21 Apr 2013, 15:03

I think the most rejectful performance was from Ferrari for reasons others have pointed out.

Honourable mentions to
Gutierrez for being beaten by a Caterham on pure pace

Pirelli: now their tyres are going to have to be looked into

and last of all:

The FIA telemetry system which wasn't used for the race because of bugs. The system hasn't been working properly all season with bugs usually in the FP sessions and now they were severe enough to not be used in this race... Not good for being the most technologically advanced motorsport in the world...

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 21 Apr 2013, 15:06

Van De Garde has my vote. He is wasting a seat that Heikki Kovalainen can easily have. And the fact that Pic got 17th and he was lapped twice.

Mentions have to go to

Alonso's DRS. Robbed us of a real battle between him and Vettel

Massa's Tyres- What the hell Happened?

Esteban Gutierrez- You seriously can't beat a Caterham . Bring Kamui Kobayashi Back!!!

Nico Rosberg- From Pole to ninth! Again Awful!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 21 Apr 2013, 15:24

It's a difficult nomination. I'm going with Alonso/Ferrari for activating again the DRS the lap after he pitted to fix it. What the hell was that? You know that your DRS didn't close before and you try and use it again? He had to pit again and lost all chance of fighting for 3rd-4th place, which was well within reach. He may rue losing these points at the end of the season.

Honorary mention to Spanish fans crying foul because "Pirelli has hardened the tyres to help Red Bull". They mean that Pirelli's hard tyre today wasn't the same hard tyre they brought to Malaysia. Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous -but they also made the same claim last year, namely that the tyres were hardened post-Canada, because 1 stop races "suddenly" became possible (ignoring the 50+ laps some people, like Grosjean and Pérez, managed to do during that very same race; but who cares about facts?). Lots of people are now supporting this conspiracy at Twitter; my countrymen have the awful custom of blaming anyone for our own failures (Platini's supposed hate of Spain for Malaga going out in the Champions League; Merkel for our current economic problems; the private banks for the unpayable mortgages; Ron Dennis for Alonso's problems at McLaren, and so on). Now Pirelli are to blame because they are supposedly helping Vettel and Red Bull to win at the expense of Alonso. Geez...

I am okay with people criticizing Pirelli for changing its tyre choice for this race; that's a fair point, although I understand why they did it, but it's fine to argue that they wanted to appease Red Bull. That's one thing, but making a conspiracy out of thin air it's really pathetic. The fact that Vettel pitted three times or that the Red Bulls were already very fast during the race at Malaysia doesn't seem to matter.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 21 Apr 2013, 15:53

I am going to stick my neck out here and say: Webber

Now before you start flaming the everloving bathpluck out of me for nominating the forums favorite man, let's look at the facts.

He finished a lowly 7th, while his teammate won the race in a dominating fashion. Sure, he had a low starting position, but two out of the three podium-finishers started behind him in a weaker car.
He lost TWO places in the last lap, and was close to losing one more to Alonso, who didn't have DRS AND had to make a couple of extra pitstops.

Add into that a total anonymity in the race and BOOM, we got my nomination for the reject

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 21 Apr 2013, 16:01

Several nominations..but I'm going to have to go with Webber. He seems to be a little demotivated after the Malaysia race.
But he was run close by Esteban Gutierrez, the Ferrari team, and Mercedes's tyre gremlins.
Not to mention Button's whining about Perez being too aggressive. And he finished four places behind him.

Post by **tommykl** » 21 Apr 2013, 16:08

DonTirri wrote:I am going to stick my neck out here and say: Webber

Now before you start flaming the everloving bathpluck out of me for nominating the forums favorite man, let's look at the facts.

He finished a lowly 7th, while his teammate won the race in a dominating fashion. Sure, he had a low starting position, but two out of the three podium-finishers started behind him in a weaker car.
He lost TWO places in the last lap, and was close to losing one more to Alonso, who didn't have DRS AND had to make a couple of extra pitstops.

Add into that a total anonymity in the race and BOOM, we got my nomination for the reject

Now, I'm not going to flame you, but while the facts do show that Mark's race was disappointing, I have to disagree with you on the ROTR nomination.

For bad pace, we can at least have Gutiérrez, who finished behind Pic on pure pace, or Ricciardo, who finished behind both Williams.

Also, it's common knowledge that a single moment of brainfade is more likely to gain ROTR than just being a bit slow. For example, GvdG for ramming into Vergne on the first lap, for example, or Felipe Massa cutting Sutil's tyre (even though that's not really worthy of a ROTR either).

This is why I'm giving it to Ferrari's luck, with one DRS failure and two separate punctures of which none were their fault.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 21 Apr 2013, 16:40

Mentions: Webber; Ferrari; Van Der Garde
2. Mercedes at the start of the race
1. Esteban Gutiérrez.

Post by **Londoner** » 21 Apr 2013, 17:29

Giedo Van Der Garde - Absolutely cocking awful all weekend.

Ferrari - So much went wrong. Disasterous.

Nico Rosberg - Converts pole position into a 9th place finish. And once again, some dubious defending.

But ROTR has to go to...last week's winner, Esteban Gutierrez. He crashed into someone on the first lap, did piss all for the rest of the afternoon, and finished behind a Caterham. I know we should take into account that he's a rookie and all that, but he's been absolutely atrocious so far.

Post by **mario** » 21 Apr 2013, 17:35

DonTirri wrote:I am going to stick my neck out here and say: Webber

Now before you start flaming the everloving bathpluck out of me for nominating the forums favorite man, let's look at the facts.

He finished a lowly 7th, while his teammate won the race in a dominating fashion. Sure, he had a low starting position, but two out of the three podium-finishers started behind him in a weaker car.
He lost TWO places in the last lap, and was close to losing one more to Alonso, who didn't have DRS AND had to make a couple of extra pitstops.

Add into that a total anonymity in the race and BOOM, we got my nomination for the reject

There was one moment where he attracted quite a bit of attention - unfortunately, it was the attention of the stewards when he collided with Rosberg. The stewards said that they would investigate that incident after the race - now, they've not taken any action (at least, not at the time of writing), but given that Webber had already picked up a penalty in China because of a collision, he perhaps should have reigned it in a little given that he would surely have been under more intense scrutiny than usual.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 21 Apr 2013, 17:42

1. Ferrari's Luck: Talk about all the cards falling the wrong way.

2. Gutierrez: Got beaten by a Caterham. While driving a Sauber?!

Dishonorable Mentions:

Everyone Who Keeps Nominating Webber for ROTR for Every Little Thing He Did Wrong When There Are Much Better Candidates for the Race

Van der Garde

Button